Is your God Almighty?

[SCIRLIN]

About Genesis:

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat [4] of it you shall surely die.”

God says that the man shall die if he eats of the tree.

4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Here the Serpent says that they will not die and their eyes will be opened. Was the Serpent right? Or God is right? Lets Check!

[2] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

The Serpent was right! They did not die and their eyes was opened! God said they will die, He did that to cause fear in adam and eve. Who is the liar> God or The Serpent?

8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

Here God is just walking in the garden in the cool of the day. Just like every human? mmm

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.

Wow prove that The Serpent was speaking the truth. And God is a liar. Oh wait we can be like God to!!! Yes The Serpent is right we can be like the Gods! God was scared so He kicked out adam and eve out of the garden.

Is God Almighty :162: ? Or were They alien visitors :slap: ? or something different? Give your opinion!!!

 

[Aqualung]

Wait, I'm confused. You seem to make a huge jump. You say that satan was right, and therefore God was wrong. Satan was partly right - their eyes were opened. But he was wrong, because they surely did die. God was right, because when they ate that fruit, they sufferend spiritual death (they were cut off from god) and they were subject to physical death. After all, god didn't say, "you will surely die right after you eat it." he just said you will surely die.

 

[SCIRLIN]

I dont read they sufferend spiritual death, God kicked them out because they were almost like God. So The Serpent was right. God is a tyrant just read the ot. Why do you deny that The Serpent is right? You fear God because He is Tyrant? Because He let people kill His enemys? The bible is a book of war,hate and fear. God likes to make people scared and to cause fear. Think about it!

 

[fromthe heart]

I dont read they sufferend spiritual death, God kicked them out because they were almost like God. So The Serpent was right. God is a tyrant just read the ot. Why do you deny that The Serpent is right? You fear God because He is Tyrant? Because He let people kill His enemys? The bible is a book of war,hate and fear. God likes to make people scared and to cause fear. Think about it!

I noticed you used the word 'almost' like God...well if this act as they were told of Satan was to make them as God is then how is it they weren't overpowering God and refusing to be kicked out of the garden of Eden??? So I guess the only thing the Devil serpent was right about was that they would have their eyes opened and they would know right from wrong...but at this point it's too late to worry about it cuz they are on a death course as God said. God doesn't expect fear from His children He demands respect just as most parents do of their children if they really love them!!! Perhaps if you would take a closer look you would find the love of God for His people...HOW many times do you hear when someone has a close call with death or have been in a fearful situation and have come through it they say "Thank Satan!" NO you will always hear thank YOU GOD!!! So where is the fear in that???

 

[Smoke]

I noticed you used the word 'almost' like God...well if this act as they were told of Satan was to make them as God is then how is it they weren't overpowering God and refusing to be kicked out of the garden of Eden???

Genesis 3.5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3.22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil ...

God confirms that what the serpent said was true.

 

[SCIRLIN]

Second people are used to say thank god in fearfull situations. Like some people say jesus when they are mad. So when the israelis were killing innocent people out there they were giving respect to that God driving on a cloud?

 

[Smoke]

But he was wrong, because they surely did die. God was right, because when they ate that fruit, they sufferend spiritual death (they were cut off from god) and they were subject to physical death. After all, god didn't say, "you will surely die right after you eat it." he just said you will surely die.

God had said, "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." That didn't happen. The text says nothing about spiritual death, and nothing about Adam and Eve having been immortal before their "fall." On the contrary, it clearly implies, in the passage about the tree of life, that it was not in their nature to be immortal: "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

 

[jewscout]

Wow prove that The Serpent was speaking the truth. And God is a liar. Oh wait we can be like God to!!! Yes The Serpent is right we can be like the Gods! God was scared so He kicked out adam and eve out of the garden.

Is God Almighty :162: ? Or were They alien visitors :slap: ? or something different? Give your opinion!!!

Commentary from Artscroll's Stone Edition Chumash:

For on the day you eat of it... On that day the evil impulses of jealosy, lust, and honor will be aroused within you, making it impossible for you to attain the goal of complete spirituality as long as you are still on earth. Thus, eternal life will be an intolerable burden for you (Malbim).
...you shall surely die. Since Adam lived to the age of 930, it is clear taht he was not to die as soon as he ate the fruit. Rather, he would become subject to death, whereas if he had never sinned, his holiness would have kept him alive forever.

 

[Smoke]

For on the day you eat of it... On that day the evil impulses of jealosy, lust, and honor will be aroused within you, making it impossible for you to attain the goal of complete spirituality as long as you are still on earth. Thus, eternal life will be an intolerable burden for you (Malbim).

1) If it was a great sin for them to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, then wouldn't the impulse to eat the fruit be an evil impulse itself? Isn't the evil impulse a prerequisite to the evil act?

2) Why would knowledge of good and evil give rise to evil impulses? If that's the case, don't we have to conclude that God is also subject to evil impulses?

3) Why should complete spirituality be a goal for beings who are both spiritual and corporeal? Was God's creation flawed, in that it was corporeal as well as spiritual?

...you shall surely die. Since Adam lived to the age of 930, it is clear taht he was not to die as soon as he ate the fruit. Rather, he would become subject to death, whereas if he had never sinned, his holiness would have kept him alive forever.

There is no basis for that conclusion in the text -- none at all.

 

[jewscout]

1) If it was a great sin for them to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, then wouldn't the impulse to eat the fruit be an evil impulse itself? Isn't the evil impulse a prerequisite to the evil act?

in this case the evil impulse is represented by the serpent himself. He intices Eve as a test for her. In this situation it is an outside influence who muttles the lines between good and bad. After this that blurred vision will be internal in man.

2) Why would knowledge of good and evil give rise to evil impulses? If that's the case, don't we have to conclude that God is also subject to evil impulses?

first the evil impulse is not necessarily a bad thing all the time, if controlled impulses like greed and lust can be used for good things. It is when we do not control ourselves they become destructive.
your second point goes on the idea that G-d is like us which from a traditional jewish standpoint, He is not.

3) Why should complete spirituality be a goal for beings who are both spiritual and corporeal? Was God's creation flawed, in that it was corporeal as well as spiritual?

being corporeal and spiritual are not flaws. Man is the connection between the natural and the Divine. The greatest goal, from what i've learned in traditional judaism, is to raise ourselves up to a higher spiritual level, by living good and righteous lives and by doing so we can make the world a better place for all people.

There is no basis for that conclusion in the text -- none at all.

and that's why one needs Oral torah and sources like Midrashim to get more out of the text. Otherwise, what the hell is "an ornament between your eyes" (Deut. 6:8)??

 

[Smoke]

and that's why one needs Oral torah and sources like Midrashim to get more out of the text. Otherwise, what the hell is "an ornament between your eyes" (Deut. 6:8)??

Why does one need the text at all? What use would it be to you without the Oral Torah and the Midrashim? And on what basis does one determine that the interpretations of the Oral Torah and the Midrashim are more accurate, or more valuable, than the interpretations of the Holy Fathers, the Popes, Martin Luther, or Mary Baker Eddy?

 

[jewscout]

Why does one need the text at all? What use would it be to you without the Oral Torah and the Midrashim? And on what basis does one determine that the interpretations of the Oral Torah and the Midrashim are more accurate, or more valuable, than the interpretations of the Holy Fathers, the Popes, Martin Luther, or Mary Baker Eddy?

The text is the foundation, without it the house can not stand.
It was also written down so that the whole world could have access to it in order to read and contimplate it.
And since the text has been applied to not on Judaism but Christianity and Islam, different perspectives can be given. Not necessarily right or wrong, just different as the view points of the readers are different for each person.

as far as who determines interpretation? Anyone can interpret but when it comes to Halacha (jewish religious law) you can find the mechanics in the Oral torah and other texts. Of course this applies to Judaism only, christians and muslims have a whole different reference point that is not incorporated into Judaism just as Judaism's perspectives may not always be incorporated into their's.

 

[SCIRLIN]

Bible the book of the Tyrant God:

Slavery and Racism

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clan born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthessly." (Lev 25:44-46 NIV).

Man stoned to death for collecting wood
"While the Isrealites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath da....So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses." (Num 15:32-36 NIV)


God likes the smell of burning flesh
20Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor… (Gen. 8:20-21)


God spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend.

11Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. (Gen. 33:11)

No man can see God’s face and live. —Completely contradicts the above.

20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live.” (Gen. 33:20)

An oracle saw God riding on a swift cloud on the way to Egypt.
1An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt; (Isa. 19:1)

God likes to rides on clouds

Here bible of the sweet God who is full with loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! God is a teddy bear (L)

 

[jewscout]

Slavery and Racism...

laws for an institution that no longer exists:sarcastic

Man stoned to death for collecting wood

really it is for carrying wood too, on the Holy Shabbat, the laws of which had already been decreed.
these days, however, you'd be hard pressed to find someone stoned to death for breaking shabbat...

God likes the smell of burning flesh

...unless of course you take the position that this is metaphoric, as many in traditional judaism hold, and that sacrifice is like prayer, a way for us to connect w/ HaShem

God spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend....

this and the following verses are, again, metaphoric in the opinion of traditional judaism, as, really, G-d has no physical form, therefore, no face.

An oracle saw God riding on a swift cloud on the way to Egypt.

i don't really see the point of this in the line of verses you have previously sited.
it really says nothing except that Isaiah has a good use of poetic and metaphoric writing styles...

Here bible of the sweet God who is full with loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! God is a teddy bear (L)

the concept of G-d as Love is a christian one...though G-d loves, in jewish text, He is not Love.
G-d is also a G-d of justice as well.

 

[SCIRLIN]

abou tthe slavery...So God likes to change mind? I though His word is perfect?

The Israelite army worked on the Sabbath which deserves death by stoning! (Num 15:32 NIV)

So you connect to God by killing animals? nice way God likes fresh meat! >( btw i know you cant sacrifice now because there is no temple)

G-d has no physical form. well God walked in the garden and you could hear his sound(footsteps?)

Well the bible is not fair justice. Oh well maybe your God has a other view of justice.

 

[Aqualung]

I dont read they sufferend spiritual death, God kicked them out because they were almost like God.

He kicked them, but he also stopped walking with them as he did in the garden. Man now had to speak to him through prayer, and man had also brought sin into the world.

So The Serpent was right. God is a tyrant just read the ot.

The serpent never said god was a tyrant, so what was he right about?

Why do you deny that The Serpent is right?

I didn't. In fact, I said that both the serpent and god were right.

You fear God because He is Tyrant?

I don't "fear" god in that I'm afraid of him. "Fear" in biblical context means being in great awe of him.

The bible is a book of war,hate and fear.

No, just the OT.

 

[Aqualung]

God likes the smell of burning flesh

So do I. Mmmmm. Haven't you ever sat outside when your dad (or you) was grilling some chicken, or something, and the smell of that burning flesh just made your mouth water? *drools*

 

[SCIRLIN]

So The Serpent was right > i am sorry i mean the genesis story. God is a tyrant just read the ot > this is what i wrote.

Ofcourse its only the ot because the nt has been made by pagan romans and not jews. If God likes the smell of burning flesh does he likes to eat flesh to ? I thought God was a vegaterian.

 

[Smoke]

these days, however, you'd be hard pressed to find someone stoned to death for breaking shabbat...

But should they be? Or are the shabbat laws obsolete?

 

[jewscout]

abou tthe slavery...So God likes to change mind? I though His word is perfect?

again, if you look at the wording of the passage it is talking about slave laws not a command to have slaves. The institution no longer exists, therefore the law is not applicable.
also He instituted laws on the service in the Temple including sacrifices...they don't occur now either. Is it because G-d changed His mind or because the Temple

The Israelite army worked on the Sabbath which deserves death by stoning! (Num 15:32 NIV)

One may fight to defend and protect life. The protection of life overrides all.

So you connect to God by killing animals? nice way God likes fresh meat! >( btw i know you cant sacrifice now because there is no temple)

back then that was the way it was done in many societies, sacrifice was commonplace.
today there is some debate amongst some rabbis whether a 3rd Temple will have sacrifices or not.

G-d has no physical form. well God walked in the garden and you could hear his sound(footsteps?)

Again, metaphorical, the torah speaks in the language of man...
of course others will disagree with me but that's their right

Well the bible is not fair justice. Oh well maybe your God has a other view of justice.

or maybe you and i have different understandings of the Torah, G-d, and the concept of justice.:sarcastic