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Is Trinity in the Bible?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Yasin, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    There is no specific reference to the word "Trinity" in the Bible, but clear delineation of the doctrine throughout the New Testament Gospels in regards to God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit, three spiritual beings that all share the same attributes to deity and divinity. That is what is important, not trying to search for evidence of the reference to a more modern term that speaks to the doctrine referenced above. ;)
     
  2. MdmSzdWhtGuy

    MdmSzdWhtGuy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what the purpose of Yasin's post was, but I do think he raised a good, legitimate question. Is the trinity spoken of in the Bible? If no, then where do Christians come up with this doctrine, and how reliable can it be if it is not mentioned in the Bible?

    I am re reading the Bible at the moment, just started a few days ago, and in the very first book of the Bible I am already amazed by the things which I presumed to be in there, but are not. For instance there is no mention in Genesis that the serpent was The Devil, or was possessed by the Devil. It only says that the serpent is more clever than the other animals.

    On the other hand, if the Trinity is mentioned in the Bible, that is interesting as well, and perhaps we could get a book and verse so we may go and read about it.

    B.
     
  3. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    What many of us call the trinity is not put in the name biblically as 'trinity'...It is however throughout the Bible in one or more form as the godhead which is God the Father-God the Son-God the Holy Ghost(Spirit)...trinity is perhaps our slang word to describe the Godhead as well as the fact that God has always been and will always be. Before there was us there was the God who stated,Let US make man in OUR image,after OUR likeness:Genesis 1:26 To me this means God was not talking to Himself but to Jesus and the Holy Ghost...in Genesis 1:2 it speaks of the Spirit of God...and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


    Jesus called upon HIS FATHER upon His 'death' on the cross. In John Chapter 10 Verse38 it says the Father is in ME and I in HIM. Like I said it is refered to all throughout the Bible of the 3 parts of God in the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.
     
  4. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Maybe not in Genesis but in.....

    Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    ;)

    When you were reading did you pick up on the way a day was laid out? At the end of each day of creation it was said to be the evening and the morning. Evening came first then the morning. Christians don't even follow a day as YAH laid it out for man. There are plenty of problems with all beliefs as man has instituted them.
     
  5. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    To me the trinity is false.

    And I quote........
    In the great congregational Shema, we read that there is but one Creator, and His name is YAH. And over 1500 years later, the Messiah quotes the identical Shemaic passage in the book of Matthew:

    Mark 12:28-29 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And YAHshua answered him, the first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; YAH our Elohim is one.

    And his scribe answered:

    Mark 12:32
    And the scribe said unto him, Well Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one Elohim; and there is none other but he.

    Well said, indeed! But now, over 2000 years later, we are being inundated with a doctrine of a "Trinity", a doctrine of polytheism that claims a "triune" existence of "God the Father", "God the Son", and "God the Holy Spirit", all being separate – and yet all being equal and all being one. Notice secular history on the trinity:

    Trinity (theology), in Christian theology, doctrine that God exists as three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—who are united in one substance or being . . . The term trinitas was first used in the 2nd century, by the Latin theologian Tertullian, but the concept was developed in the course of the debates on the nature of Christ (see Christology). In the 4th century, the doctrine was finally formulated; using terminology still employed by Christian theologians, the doctrine taught the coequality of the persons of the Godhead. "Trinity (theology)," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2000. © 1993-1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    Where in scripture can we find Trinitarian support from the Messiah, a Prophet, an Apostle or a disciple stating that YAHshua, our King is indeed the Most High Creator or even equal to?

    We see above that the Holy Scriptures proclaim that there is but one Master. And in the "New Testament" scriptures, the Messiah himself is undoubtedly in agreement.

    End of quote.......
     
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  6. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Wouldn't it make more sense to just speak of the Godhead and base our knowledge of the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost on what the Bible has to say? For 325 years, Christians managed to do quite nicely without the embellished version.
     
  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I agree and disagree with Kat!

    We should abandon these man made concepts like "trinity" and this includes "godhead" as well (sorry). Instead of trying to force the scriptures to fit our perceptions of reality, lets try to force our reality to fit the scriptures. :D
     
  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    The Godhead is scriptural, though, NetDoc. I agree with you, however, that forcing the scriptures to fit our perceptions is really a case of putting the cart before the horse.
     
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  9. Yasin

    Yasin Member

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    From your responses i can gather that you are a atheist, but what puzzles me is the concern you have to my topics, is this not a debating site?

    ps. Piltdown man, was that not a fraud, put out by evolutionist, in order to support the theory.

    Once again Respectively, Yasin:bounce
     
  10. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Frankly Yasin, I have no right.

    If deluded Christians wish to engage you, then let them at it. This is indeed a debating site, after all. In all honesty, if they are content debating things, who am I to say. But between you, me and the gatepost, I can't help but imagine some of them as being sitting ducks. One is reminded of shooting fish in a barrel. Good hunting, dude. I won't trouble you further. I am slowly coming around to the fact that I should leave the theological hair-splitting to far greater minds than mine.

    Allah knows best.
    Respectfully,YmirGF

    PS: Thanks for noticing my tag. The Piltdown reference is not intended as a slight on evolution. Piltdown man was a hoax. I thought that was a rather fitting label to describe religion, in very general terms A hoax. Just a bunch of circus acts really, all with barkers, barking up their own trees. Yes, I am painting them all with that brush.

    Whenever I see any kind of religious display my deranged brain start humming the strains of "Bring in the clowns". I try, but I just cannot take them seriously. It is a serious problem I have. One of the mainifestations of my illness is a rather magnificent million dollar grin. It is a hard illness to deal with, so pray for me.

    Am I an atheist? Technically, yes I am. Technically because I do not accept any form of God that is currently available on the menu of man. I see something altogether different. Is SHE real? Or is HE and illusion. Who's to say. At least I am not pretending IT is. Fath only takes one so far, the rest we have to do ourselves.
     
  11. Yasin

    Yasin Member

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    Thanks Man,

    I appreciate your reply, Religion is something i have allways love to discuss, and your right, God can be a hard concept to accept or understand, for some it makes sense, for others it doesnt, but your right it all comes to faith and freewill. The fact that Science can't prove nor disprove makes it a topic, never ending...............ok then, take care.....Respectfully, Yasin:bounce
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    But what If I am happy, and at ease with the idea of the trinity ?; surely it is up to us individuals to decide how we view things ? Come to think about it, the Trinity has cause trouble in history. In Africa, the missionaries were constantly pounded with the "You teach us there's only one god, then you say there are three ?".

    I guess I never understood the Trinity until being here awhile.
    And now I have (I think) got the hang of it, please don't mess with my head............:D
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Then go for it dude... I can only express what works for me. I do not mean to imply that ALL should believe as I do. :D
     
  14. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    The word 'Church' was never used in the Bible either, but that does not mean that it does not exist. :D It, to me, does not matter if someone uses the word trinity to describe the Father, the Son and the Holly Spirit. What's more important, Echoing ND, Christ's teachings or a word to describe something that helps some people to understand?
     
  15. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    It's not? Start with these, and when done, I'll go get you some more from www.BibleGateway.com!

    1. Matthew 16:18
      And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
      Matthew 16:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 16 (Whole Chapter)
    2. Matthew 18:17
      If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
      Matthew 18:16-18 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
    3. Acts 5:11
      Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
      Acts 5:10-12 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
    4. Acts 8:1
      And Saul was there, giving approval to his death. [ The Church Persecuted and Scattered ] On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.
      Acts 8:1-3 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
    5. Acts 8:3
      But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.
      Acts 8:2-4 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
    6. Acts 9:31
      Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.
      Acts 9:30-32 (in Context) Acts 9 (Whole Chapter)
    7. Acts 11:19
      [ The Church in Antioch ] Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the message only to Jews.
      Acts 11:18-20 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
    8. Acts 11:22
      News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch.
      Acts 11:21-23 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
    9. Acts 11:26
      and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
      Acts 11:25-27 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
    10. Acts 12:1
      [ Peter's Miraculous Escape From Prison ] It was about this time that King Herod arrested some who belonged to the church, intending to persecute them.
      Acts 12:1-3 (in Context) Acts 12 (Whole Chapter)
    Peace, bro!
     
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  16. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    The word, from my understanding, was actually assembly, but was translated incorrectly. I'll see if I can find the link! :D
     
  17. SoyLeche

    SoyLeche meh...

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    Unless there is a hebrew or greek word that is pronounce 'church' then you're going to have to go with translations. BTW - Define "church" in your view. I'd say it's a pretty good synonym (sp?) for assembly in the context of the passages listed.
     
  18. angellous_evangellous

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    You're right.

    The Greek word is ekklesia, which is used to describe political gatherings.

    The English word "church" shares its etemology with the German word Kirke, which means "building."

    We can translate ekklesia as "assembly" or "church" because in English "church" can carry both the connotation of the gathering (assembly) or the building itself.
     
  19. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    http://www.the-faith.org.uk/church.html Interesting reading. There are a bunch that explain the mis-translation. The point being, it does not appear in the Bible, either does the word trinity. But that does not mean they don't exist.
     
  20. Yasin

    Yasin Member

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    Pease to Fromtheheart

    When i posted this thread, i wanted to discuss the concept of Trinity, you see if you ask most Christians, what do they base the Trinity on? they will say The Bible and will state the verse found in 1 John 5:7
    For there are are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (king James Version)

    But, if you look in the Revised Standard Version (which is the work of 32 scholars and 50 co-operating denominations) and the New International Version (written by over a hundred scholars) this vers has been taken out as something that was put in later.

    Thats according to my knowledge is the best evidence of trinity, how do you acount for such interpolations?

    Respectively, Yasin:bounce
     
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