Is Trinity in the Bible?

[wmam]

He did nothing if not by the Father.

 

[dawny0826]

He did nothing if not by the Father.

Yes...it was God IN HIM...the Holy Spirit within him...that made it all possible.

 

[joeboonda]

It is hard for anyone, including me to understand this topic, so, if we have disagreement about some things, I am not against someone who's views are slightly different than mine. I am enjoying discussing it. I understand that God the Father, is God the Father, and yet I describe deity to Christ, and the Holy Spirit, from statements made in the Bible. One biggie for me is that Jesus forgave sins, not like me or you, but He told people, "Thy sins be forgiven thee." That is one reason He was crucified, because they considered it blasphemy to make oneself equal with God, for only God could forgive sins. From my understanding of scripture, a tri-une God best fits with the Bible verses.

 

[wmam]

It is hard for anyone, including me to understand this topic, so, if we have disagreement about some things, I am not against someone who's views are slightly different than mine. I am enjoying discussing it.

Nor Do I. I am also enjoying our discussion.

I understand that God the Father, is God the Father, and yet I describe deity to Christ, and the Holy Spirit, from statements made in the Bible.

Yes YAH our Elohim is the Father but YAHshua is the Son. He is not Elohim. He can only do that which the Father allows. There is no statements in the Scriptures that state otherwise unless they be mis-translations or mis-understandings.

One biggie for me is that Jesus forgave sins, not like me or you, but He told people, "Thy sins be forgiven thee." That is one reason He was crucified, because they considered it blasphemy to make oneself equal with God, for only God could forgive sins. From my understanding of scripture, a tri-une God best fits with the Bible verses.

YAHshua did not forgive sins. He only spoke that by the spirit within him that was sent by His Father YAH. As John said that he saw Heaven open and the spirit float down and rest on Him as a dove. So I stand by my belief that YAHshua only was able to transmit that which was revealed to Him by the spirit, where it had to do with the supreme powers of the Father, which is an angel from Elohim. If Elohim saw it fitting to forgive one of His creations then He would have allowed the spirit to direct YAHshua to vocalize it thus. He said all along that He did the works of His Father and non good but one and that was His Father. How can we be so naive to put a creation equal to that of the creator? It is nonsense. Thats why it was one of the reasons, as you state, that they wanted to put Him to death.They didn't understand the Truth as most don't understand it now. YAHshua sits at the right hand of the Father and He has been given the power over heaven and earth from His Father. But the Father is still supreme. The one and only. The beginning and the end. YAH my Elohim is the Saviour but He does so through His Son YAHshua Ha Mashiach ben Dawid. But as you said........ I don't have a problem with what others believe either. To each his or her own but I do like discussing it.

 

[dawny0826]

Nor Do I. I am also enjoying our discussion.

Yes YAH our Elohim is the Father but YAHshua is the Son. He is not Elohim. He can only do that which the Father allows. There is no statements in the Scriptures that state otherwise unless they be mis-translations or mis-understandings.

YAHshua did not forgive sins. He only spoke that by the spirit within him that was sent by His Father YAH. As John said that he saw Heaven open and the spirit float down and rest on Him as a dove. So I stand by my belief that YAHshua only was able to transmit that which was revealed to Him by the spirit, where it had to do with the supreme powers of the Father, which is an angel from Elohim. If Elohim saw it fitting to forgive one of His creations then He would have allowed the spirit to direct YAHshua to vocalize it thus. He said all along that He did the works of His Father and non good but one and that was His Father. How can we be so naive to put a creation equal to that of the creator? It is nonsense. Thats why it was one of the reasons, as you state, that they wanted to put Him to death.They didn't understand the Truth as most don't understand it now. YAHshua sits at the right hand of the Father and He has been given the power over heaven and earth from His Father. But the Father is still supreme. The one and only. The beginning and the end. YAH my Elohim is the Saviour but He does so through His Son YAHshua Ha Mashiach ben Dawid. But as you said........ I don't have a problem with what others believe either. To each his or her own but I do like discussing it.

Hi May. I know you and Joeboonda are in the midst of a conversation here but I did want to ask you a question...are you studying from the New World Translation fo the Bible?

Just so I have an understanding...do you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior or do you only acknowledge him as a prophet? I've heard conflicting things from different JW and I didn't want to make any assumption...thought I'd ask. Thanks.

 

[Yasin]

the NWT reads in psalm 2;7 let me refer to the decree of Jehovah , He has said to me, You are my son ,i today, i have become your Father ..... it speaks of this in acts 13;33......... .... in JOHN 1;14 It says .... so the word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory such as belongs to an only- begotten son from a father, and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth

Please tell me, exactly how many sons does God (the Father) have?
According to the Bible, not interpretations.
Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[wmam]

Hi May. I know you and Joeboonda are in the midst of a conversation here but I did want to ask you a question...are you studying from the New World Translation fo the Bible?

Just so I have an understanding...do you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior or do you only acknowledge him as a prophet? I've heard conflicting things from different JW and I didn't want to make any assumption...thought I'd ask. Thanks.

Ummmmmmmmm............. Your post addresses May but you quoted me............?

 

[dawny0826]

Ummmmmmmmm............. Your post addresses May but you quoted me............?

Apologies.:bonk:

 

[wmam]

Apologies.:bonk:

No apology necessary. Just making sure that the mad cow disease hadn't got worse on me.

 

[joeboonda]

Nor Do I. I am also enjoying our discussion.

Yes YAH our Elohim is the Father but YAHshua is the Son. He is not Elohim. He can only do that which the Father allows. There is no statements in the Scriptures that state otherwise unless they be mis-translations or mis-understandings.

YAHshua did not forgive sins. He only spoke that by the spirit within him that was sent by His Father YAH. As John said that he saw Heaven open and the spirit float down and rest on Him as a dove. So I stand by my belief that YAHshua only was able to transmit that which was revealed to Him by the spirit, where it had to do with the supreme powers of the Father, which is an angel from Elohim. If Elohim saw it fitting to forgive one of His creations then He would have allowed the spirit to direct YAHshua to vocalize it thus. He said all along that He did the works of His Father and non good but one and that was His Father. How can we be so naive to put a creation equal to that of the creator? It is nonsense. Thats why it was one of the reasons, as you state, that they wanted to put Him to death.They didn't understand the Truth as most don't understand it now. YAHshua sits at the right hand of the Father and He has been given the power over heaven and earth from His Father. But the Father is still supreme. The one and only. The beginning and the end. YAH my Elohim is the Saviour but He does so through His Son YAHshua Ha Mashiach ben Dawid. But as you said........ I don't have a problem with what others believe either. To each his or her own but I do like discussing it.

I agree that God the Father is the head, and gave all power and authority to His Son, Jesus. In the New Testament, Jesus forgave sins, and they were angry because only the Father could forgive sins. They were angry that He called God His Father, making himself equal with God. In the N.T. it says he thought it not robbery to make himself equal with God. He also said He is the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The N.T. says he is sinless, the Lamb without Spot or blemish, that He who knew no sin was made sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. I don't believe Jesus was created like men or angels, but is the only-begotten Son of God, begotten, not made, which to me is a difference. I can agree that God the Father is above God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, in heirarchy, in position, yet as all being part of the Godhead or Trinity, I feel they are also equal as well. Just like I am married and have children, we are all equal, but in position, I am head of the household, my wife submitting to me, and my children to us both, but we are equal in the eyes of God as human beings, and treat each other with love and respect as humans. As I treat the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, each within their own positions, yet equal as God. The New Testament looks at Him in this light, also;
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(King James Bible, John)
Here, the Word, (Jesus), was with God and was God, was in the beginning with God, not later, but in the beginning, and without him was not anything made that was made. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Many statements such as these put Jesus and the Father as one, and as God. That is kinda my slant, I guess. Til' next time!

Mike

 

[wmam]

I agree that God the Father is the head, and gave all power and authority to His Son, Jesus. In the New Testament, Jesus forgave sins, and they were angry because only the Father could forgive sins. They were angry that He called God His Father, making himself equal with God. In the N.T. it says he thought it not robbery to make himself equal with God. He also said He is the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The N.T. says he is sinless, the Lamb without Spot or blemish, that He who knew no sin was made sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. I don't believe Jesus was created like men or angels, but is the only-begotten Son of God, begotten, not made, which to me is a difference. I can agree that God the Father is above God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, in heirarchy, in position, yet as all being part of the Godhead or Trinity, I feel they are also equal as well. Just like I am married and have children, we are all equal, but in position, I am head of the household, my wife submitting to me, and my children to us both, but we are equal in the eyes of God as human beings, and treat each other with love and respect as humans. As I treat the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, each within their own positions, yet equal as God. The New Testament looks at Him in this light, also;
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(King James Bible, John)
Here, the Word, (Jesus), was with God and was God, was in the beginning with God, not later, but in the beginning, and without him was not anything made that was made. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Many statements such as these put Jesus and the Father as one, and as God. That is kinda my slant, I guess. Til' next time!

Mike

Thats nice that you have a slant on it and believe as you do. That is absolutely "A" o.k. with me. I just happen to disagree with your understanding of what you think was being said in certain places in Scripture. Hey ........ You are not alone ......... Most people that follow the status quo of organized religion do look at it as you do. I just happen to look at it differently and do not believe that every time the title "Lord" was used in the "NT" that it was speaking of Yahshua. I believe that 99.9% of the time it was speaking of YAH my Elohim. I believe that Yahshua did not forgive sins here on earth. It was His Fathers Spirit working with-in Him that worked miracles. I do not believe that there is a "God the Son" as you state. YAH said He was the one and only and that we are to not observe any other. As far as the "WORD" issue.......... I do not believe that John was saying that Yahshua was the "WORD". The Word of YAH was with Him in the beginning. Of course it was. Unlike you or me, YAH could speak WORDS in the beginning as it was also in the beginning with YAH. He speaks the WORDS and things happen. It was through His WORDS that all was made. And yes ............ When He spoke the WORD............ Yahshua was born unto Miryam and Yosĕph. Also I personally look at it as offending YAH to say that anything that He created would be equal to Him. Again, Not arguing with you and not to offend you or your understanding. I just disagree with them.

 

[Scuba Pete]

311 posts and still no concensus. Has anyone changed their mind due to this thread? Probably not.

 

[wmam]

311 posts and still no concensus. Has anyone changed their mind due to this thread? Probably not.

Shouldn't you be answering Aqualungs reply? LOL:bounce

 

[Bishka]

I believe that the trinity is not at all in the Bible, but was made at the council of Nicea(spelling?).

 

[dawny0826]

Thats nice that you have a slant on it and believe as you do. That is absolutely "A" o.k. with me. I just happen to disagree with your understanding of what you think was being said in certain places in Scripture. Hey ........ You are not alone ......... Most people that follow the status quo of organized religion do look at it as you do. I just happen to look at it differently and do not believe that every time the title "Lord" was used in the "NT" that it was speaking of Yahshua. I believe that 99.9% of the time it was speaking of YAH my Elohim. I believe that Yahshua did not forgive sins here on earth. It was His Fathers Spirit working with-in Him that worked miracles. I do not believe that there is a "God the Son" as you state. YAH said He was the one and only and that we are to not observe any other. As far as the "WORD" issue.......... I do not believe that John was saying that Yahshua was the "WORD". The Word of YAH was with Him in the beginning. Of course it was. Unlike you or me, YAH could speak WORDS in the beginning as it was also in the beginning with YAH. He speaks the WORDS and things happen. It was through His WORDS that all was made. And yes ............ When He spoke the WORD............ Yahshua was born unto Miryam and Yosĕph. Also I personally look at it as offending YAH to say that anything that He created would be equal to Him. Again, Not arguing with you and not to offend you or your understanding. I just disagree with them.

How could it be offending to God if Christ WAS God in the flesh?

You see? This is how most of those who DO accept the Trinity believe.

 

[wmam]

How could it be offending to God if Christ WAS God in the flesh?

You see? This is how most of those who DO accept the Trinity believe.

Again ....... just the way I believe and not intending to offend you with the way you look at it is that I don't believe but in one which is YAH as my Elohim. There is no other. I believe that for me to say that there is or one equal to Him is a big slap in the face. That is how I believe.

 

[Longwindedpreacher]

Thats nice that you have a slant on it and believe as you do. That is absolutely "A" o.k. with me. I just happen to disagree with your understanding of what you think was being said in certain places in Scripture. Hey ........ You are not alone ......... Most people that follow the status quo of organized religion do look at it as you do. I just happen to look at it differently and do not believe that every time the title "Lord" was used in the "NT" that it was speaking of Yahshua. I believe that 99.9% of the time it was speaking of YAH my Elohim. I believe that Yahshua did not forgive sins here on earth. It was His Fathers Spirit working with-in Him that worked miracles. I do not believe that there is a "God the Son" as you state. YAH said He was the one and only and that we are to not observe any other. As far as the "WORD" issue.......... I do not believe that John was saying that Yahshua was the "WORD". The Word of YAH was with Him in the beginning. Of course it was. Unlike you or me, YAH could speak WORDS in the beginning as it was also in the beginning with YAH. He speaks the WORDS and things happen. It was through His WORDS that all was made. And yes ............ When He spoke the WORD............ Yahshua was born unto Miryam and Yosĕph. Also I personally look at it as offending YAH to say that anything that He created would be equal to Him. Again, Not arguing with you and not to offend you or your understanding. I just disagree with them.

Well what do you believe? Is what you believe based upon biblical truth? Because if its in the bibe its true. So to state scrptures, with the correct application, you say "I know" not " I believe". Imagine if you were trying to win a soul, saying stuff like "I believe" is not going to have the same impact as if you said "I know". Right? So in your understanding of the scriptures, dont be saying "well I believe", girl you better know.
So in refference to your reply to our brother, I want to try to clarify something for you if you'll permit me. Elohim is hebrew for God. I can see that you know that. You used El a few times in your reply. Elohim is singular. I can see that you understand that as well.
So how many persons in the Godhead is there? Three? Two? One?....ignition blastoff????
What is the New Testament? Did the Father make a covenant with men? Or was it the other two? When did the New Testament start? But the most important question is: What is the New Testament? So in order to know how to answer a question concerning the Trinity, you must know what the bible says. I want to give all the answers. But your hunger and love for the truth will save you. So use these questions to find the true doctrine of God. There has to be one truth, why would God, who is not the author of confusion, make us believe that there is only one God made up of three persons, or that he himself is the manifestation of the three manifestations? Why?

 

[wmam]

Well what do you believe?

As I have already stated.

Is what you believe based upon biblical truth?

It is based on Scriptural Truth. Not to say that everyone would look at the same Truth as I or anyone else. To each his or her own.

Because if its in the bibe its true.

Not necessarily. There are mis-translations as well as additions by those with an agenda that were not found in the old text.

So to state scrptures, with the correct application, you say "I know" not " I believe".

That may be your understanding of correct application but it may not be mine.

Imagine if you were trying to win a soul, saying stuff like "I believe" is not going to have the same impact as if you said "I know". Right? So in your understanding of the scriptures, dont be saying "well I believe",

I can imagine it but was not my intention. FWIW.......I was just having a conversation about my beliefs and was not trying to offend anyone. To say I know more or any better than another is to me very offending at least. I will leave that type of thing to others as I see others do it so much better than I.

girl you better know.

I know enough to know that last I looked ......... I was a 43 year old man. LOL

So in refference to your reply to our brother, I want to try to clarify something for you if you'll permit me. Elohim is hebrew for God. I can see that you know that.

I disagree, but it doesn't matter so ..............

You used El a few times in your reply. Elohim is singular. I can see that you understand that as well.

I understand that Elohim is singular and that is YAH. The one and only.

So how many persons in the Godhead is there? Three? Two? One?....ignition blastoff????

I, again, believe only one. YAH my Elohim.

What is the New Testament?

Besides that of confirming the Torah? Or are you asking me to quote the different books of?
_________ to be continued__________

 

[wmam]

Did the Father make a covenant with men?

Oh yes. Lets see... there is the one with Adam and theres one with Noah and there was one with Abraham and another one with David. I may have missed a few but I believed I answered your question.

Or was it the other two?

Other two what?

When did the New Testament start?

When it was given as is the case of all testimony's. Now........ the covenant would be a different story. That, I believe, would have started at the shedding of Yahshua Ha Mashiach Ben Dawid's death on the stake.

But the most important question is: What is the New Testament?

O.k. ........ if I must........


MatthewEphesiansHebrewsMarkPhilippiansJamesLukeColossiansFirst PeterJohnFirst ThessaloniansSecond PeterActsSecond ThessaloniansFirst JohnRomansFirst TimothySecond JohnFirst CorinthiansSecond TimothyThird JohnSecond CorinthiansTitusJudeGalationsPhilemonRevelation

So in order to know how to answer a question concerning the Trinity, you must know what the bible says.

Thats just it....... I don't believe that the Scriptures say anything about the trinity therefore I feel I know perfectly well in how I should answer a question posed by another concerning something that I do not believe exist. I know what the Scriptures says and it doesn't say anything about trinity. That, again, is my belief.

I want to give all the answers.

No thank you. I will rely on the Scriptures and the guidance of that set - apart spirit, the Malakhim, for the answers.

But your hunger and love for the truth will save you.

I disagree. Though I understand what you are trying to convey. For doing one or two you would already be doing the other. That is like covering the whole meaning of the law with just one word. That word would be "Love".

So use these questions to find the true doctrine of God.

Again, I prefer to use the guidance of the Malakhim and Scriptures for that.

There has to be one truth,

Oh ........ but I believe there is.

why would God, who is not the author of confusion, make us believe that there is only one God made up of three persons, or that he himself is the manifestation of the three manifestations? Why?

Again, this is my beliefs and may not be accepted by you or anyone else so I do not intend to offend you or anyone in my reply here so please do not take it as such.........You are right, in so much that YAH is not the author of confusion, but after a millennium of man mistranslating and adding to the inspired word of YAH, I have reservations to anything that wasn't in the old text which was written in Hebrew and even the Greek text where it differs from the meanings and understandings of those of the Hebrew and Aramaic languages.

 

[joeboonda]

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/trinitytc.htm

Well, Hi, I wanted to post this link on the Trinity, for anyone interested in studying it. It shows from the Bible, in great detail, why most Christians believe in the Trinity.