Is This Vaccine Moral?

[pete29]

Good for your godly morals, mine don't rely on a yet to be proven entity, which is particularly lucky for my two daughters in this case.
So you're a firm believer in the whole 'The wages of sin are death' thing then? :sarcastic
Nice.
I think I'll skip the deity that thinks it's better for women to die of cervical cancer 20 years down the track, if it's all the same to you. Sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant kinda bloke.

Gee you think you can be just a little more hateful, people might misunderstand you mate.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Gee you think you can be just a little more hateful, people might misunderstand you mate.

I'm sorry. Sorry that you can't see that claiming god would rather see someone dead than having sex outside marriage is hateful on a number of levels,but can freely interpret me saying that I don't think that particular interpretation of god is a particularly nice one, is. Though if that particular brand of god is your diety of choice also, I imagine it would be fairly easy to interpret it as such.
I don't think it's possible - even with considerable effort - for me to muster up the level of contempt for my fellow human beings as a person who can claim it's immoral to potentially save lives because it may cause people who don't necessarily subscribe to his worldview anyway to 'sin' by having sex in situations he personally doesn't sanction obviously has. Isn't there something about people without sin being the only ones in a position to toss rocks about?
But by all means...if you consider it more moral that your children should die as the result of doing something you don't agree with, then I expect you'd see it as a perfectly reasonable position.
Now, did you have a contribution to make to the actual debate, or should we just interpret your position from your need to smack me for not embracing the god who deems women who don't remain celibate til marriage deserve to die from cancer?

 

[kiwimac]

Of course the vaccine is moral and SO is the vaccination. HPV is NOT a nice way to die.

 

[gnomon]

2) It's something that I, and other Christian girls like me will never have to worry about.

Save this until five years from now.

 

[gnomon]

What are potential affects of the vaccine?

Apparently one very noticeable side effect is moodiness in the religious right.

 

[pete29]

I'm sorry. Sorry that you can't see that claiming god would rather see someone dead than having sex outside marriage is hateful on a number of levels,but can freely interpret me saying that I don't think that particular interpretation of god is a particularly nice one, is. Though if that particular brand of god is your diety of choice also, I imagine it would be fairly easy to interpret it as such.
I don't think it's possible - even with considerable effort - for me to muster up the level of contempt for my fellow human beings as a person who can claim it's immoral to potentially save lives because it may cause people who don't necessarily subscribe to his worldview anyway to 'sin' by having sex in situations he personally doesn't sanction obviously has. Isn't there something about people without sin being the only ones in a position to toss rocks about?
But by all means...if you consider it more moral that your children should die as the result of doing something you don't agree with, then I expect you'd see it as a perfectly reasonable position.
Now, did you have a contribution to make to the actual debate, or should we just interpret your position from your need to smack me for not embracing the god who deems women who don't remain celibate til marriage deserve to die from cancer?

look pal, if you read any of my posts you'd realize that i'm in favor of the vaccinations. It's just that I don't think that you have to demean anyones religious beliefs to make your point. it seems you don't like anyone tossing rocks at you but your perfectly content to toss plenty of rocks yourself. By the way , I wasn't smacking you because of your beliefs, I did it because you were rude.

 

[pete29]

Apparently one very noticeable side effect is moodiness in the religious right.

and nastiness on the secular left

 

[pete29]

Save this until five years from now.

and five years from now if nothings changed will you apologize to her for doubting her.

 

[gnomon]

and nastiness on the secular left

I don't see the secular left throwing a hissy over this issue.

and five years from now if nothings changed will you apologize to her for doubting her.

No. There will be no reason to apologize. My statement reflects that predicting what oneself will be like in the future is a notoriously hard thing to do. I speak from personal experience.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

look pal, if you read any of my posts you'd realize that i'm in favor of the vaccinations. It's just that I don't think that you have to demean anyones religious beliefs to make your point. it seems you don't like anyone tossing rocks at you but your perfectly content to toss plenty of rocks yourself. By the way , I wasn't smacking you because of your beliefs, I did it because you were rude.

Well thanks mum, now go back and smack the other people who said their morals didn't come from god and who snorted at him in disgust - just to stop accusations of favouritism amongst the kiddies - and please find my red socks for me before tonight.
People can toss rocks at me all they like, I was actually referring to the ridiculous idea that it's immoral to vaccinate women against something they can catch as a result of what may well be a momentary succumbing to passion leading to 'sin' - not even on their part, but on the part of their spouse before they even met him(not even getting into the realms of non consentual sex here). I doubt the poster to whom I responded feels it's immoral for him not to drop dead 10 years after the event for coveting his neighbours ox - realistically we're all miserable sinners in one way or another - so why is it immoral to protect women from the risk of cervical cancer they'll get as the result of the so called commission of a sin?
Either we all deserve to die nastily in the distant future for our sins and anything that prevents that is immoral, or we sin, repent or not and god sorts us out as is his right.
As for anyone's particular brand of god, if I think the god you believe in is particularly petty, small minded god with a hateful personality, I will say so. It's still your right to believe in him...I don't expect you or anyone else to subscribe to my dear and fluffy lord and anyone who doesn't agree with my interpretation of deity is free to tell me so in whatever terms they so desire. Put it eloquently or amusingly enough and I'll even give you frubals for it.
Funny thing about my beliefs is that people bagging them doesn't hurt me...they're mine, I'll be the first to admit they're somewhat unorthodox, and what anyone else thinks or says about them couldn't conceivably bother me less.
Some of the people who curl up and die when you don't tiptoe around their beliefs in touchy feely fashion are the very same who will tell pagans they're going to burn in hell for devil worship or LDS that they're the children of Satan, atheists have no morals because they don't believe in god and you can't have any morals without god, homosexuals are bent on destroying marriage and a plethora of other tripe. Maybe if they didn't act like they follow a guy that pretty much sucks - instead of the guy that was all about love and got pinned to a cross for his troubles - I wouldn't be telling them that they're following a guy that sounds like he pretty much sucks.

 

[pete29]

I don't see the secular left throwing a hissy over this issue. They're to busy throwing hissy fits over any belief that doesn't fit their "if it feels good, do it lifestyles.



No. There will be no reason to apologize. My statement reflects that predicting what oneself will be like in the future is a notoriously hard thing to do. I speak from personal experience.

Just because you can't control yourself doesn't mean that everyone else has that problem too.

 

[pete29]

My opinion is that if you want to get it, go ahead. I don't think they should make it mandatory because:


2) It's something that I, and other Christian girls like me will never have to worry about.] Don't let the cynics get you down. I applaud the courage of your choice.:yes:

 

[Popeyesays]

My opinion is that if you want to get it, go ahead. I don't think they should make it mandatory because:


2) It's something that I, and other Christian girls like me will never have to worry about.] Don't let the cynics get you down. I applaud the courage of your choice.:yes:

Perhaps it is something that Christian girls should worry if the men they decide to marry have ever worried about it. In a medical sense you have sex with everybody your partner has ever had sex with -- whether in the marriage bed or not.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

HPV is a virus that causes cervical cancer, which each year kills tens of thousands of women world wide. There is now a vaccine that prevents HPV infections. Some people want to require schoolgirls to get the vaccine, while other people say that doing so would encourage the kids to have sex and is thus immoral. What do you think? Should schoolgirls get the vaccine or not?

You know, if they can prove that HPV is the cause of the more common forms of cervical cancer, how long will it be before they can prove links to testicular cancer, prostate cancer, colon cancer, stomach cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, any other cancer?

The way small pox has been eradicated was by requiring vaccinations for it. Was that moral?

Regards,
Scott

 

[mostly harmless]

My opinion is that if you want to get it, go ahead. I don't think they should make it mandatory because:


2) It's something that I, and other Christian girls like me will never have to worry about.] Don't let the cynics get you down. I applaud the courage of your choice.:yes:

Even good little christian girls can get HPV from the man they marry if he has ever had sex and that person had HPV.

Good for her if she wants to hold off for marriage. But she will still need to think on where her partner has been. Really, how many men actually wait for marriage? It has always been expected of women to stay virgins, but men have always had the freedom to go and sew their oats (if you will). How many married women get an STD from their partner who was out screwing around?

No matter how good you are, you should always plan for the worst.
Nobody is being cynical about anyone's choice to wait for marriage. People grow and change, maybe 5 or 10 years from now her opinions and views will be different on somethings. It is part of growing up.

I also, speak from experience. I was raised Roman Catholic, my views on the teachings changed rapidly as I studied different religious paths and experienced life.
I no longer call myself a Christian. I find so much of organized religion to be intolerant and hypocritical.

 

[mostly harmless]

You know, if they can prove that HPV is the cause of the more common forms of cervical cancer, how long will it be before they can prove links to testicular cancer, prostate cancer, colon cancer, stomach cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, any other cancer?

The way small pox has been eradicated was by requiring vaccinations for it. Was that moral?

Regards,
Scott

I think with that vaccine it was perfectly ok to make it mandatory, my understanding of smallpox is that it is highly contagious (you don't have to sleep with someone to get it, of course that would increase your odds of catching it).

With HPV, there are ways to prevent getting it: abstinence, condoms..of course if a woman gets raped by a man with HPV she would be in trouble if she is not vaccinated.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

I think with that vaccine it was perfectly ok to make it mandatory, my understanding of smallpox is that it is highly contagious (you don't have to sleep with someone to get it, of course that would increase your odds of catching it).

With HPV, there are ways to prevent getting it: abstinence, condoms..of course if a woman gets raped by a man with HPV she would be in trouble if she is not vaccinated.

^ That's one of the many reasons why the "no vaccination prevents 'immorality'" line just doesn't hold.

 

[gnomon]

Just because you can't control yourself doesn't mean that everyone else has that problem too.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my post. If you wish to resort to being rude then just let me know.

 

[pete29]

That has absolutely nothing to do with my post. If you wish to resort to being rude then just let me know.

First, let me apologize for my rudeness. My limited vocabulary sometimes doesn't translate my thoughts into words very well. Now to the point. The phrase "save this until five years from now" sounded to me like you thought it was impossible for the girl to remain a virgin until marraige. If that is her choice, I think she should applauded and encouraged. No matter how much protection or how many vaccines there are, sex can still be a very dangerous activity, both physically and emotionally. Abstinence is the only practice that I know of that works 100% of the time. I know it's unrealistic to think that everyone can follow that path, but I think that those who do should be supported. Again I apologize for my poor choice of words.

 

[pete29]

Even good little christian girls can get HPV from the man they marry if he has ever had sex and that person had HPV.

Good for her if she wants to hold off for marriage. But she will still need to think on where her partner has been. Really, how many men actually wait for marriage? It has always been expected of women to stay virgins, but men have always had the freedom to go and sew their oats (if you will). How many married women get an STD from their partner who was out screwing around?

No matter how good you are, you should always plan for the worst.
Nobody is being cynical about anyone's choice to wait for marriage. People grow and change, maybe 5 or 10 years from now her opinions and views will be different on somethings. It is part of growing up.

I also, speak from experience. I was raised Roman Catholic, my views on the teachings changed rapidly as I studied different religious paths and experienced life.
I no longer call myself a Christian. I find so much of organized religion to be intolerant and hypocritical.

Please consider this. Is it the religion or some of the people involved in the religion that are intolerant and hypocritical. I am Roman Catholic and although some of us ( I include myself because as a human I'm not perfect) are as you say, I find the teachings of the Church to be full of Hope and Love.