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Is this the end of the World Economy as we know it?

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hi Adrian. I really hope so. I don’t think we in the west are fully aware of what many people in third world countries have to go through daily just to survive not live decent lives, just survive.

Imagine you earn $2 a day to cover food for a family of 7 with no Medicare system, no pensions and no unemployment so when someone gets ill it becomes a choice of go sell something or stay sick. You pay the doctor upfront or he won’t see you.

Our family in Burma are confronted with that reality daily and no matter how we help them it’s the system that oppresses their lives and they just can’t rise above the struggle.

There is no Medicare, unemployment benefits or pensions in Burma so one is at the mercy of circumstances and the goodwill of family and friends if things go bad you often won’t get help. It’s broken systems like this where the people need some support. I really hope their circumstances change as so many around the world suffer silently but nobody sees what they go through. Out of sight, out of mind as the saying goes.

Even in the Solomon Islands there is no welfare system, but they do have a medical system.

Education is not free though, people with no income can not get education for their children, thus the cycle of poverty repeats, while the few well to do keep feeding their wealth.

To me it all points towards a change in mindset is needed, a spiritual solution to the economic problem is required.

I am optimistic that can happen, because we see it does happen, people do choose to give away wealth to others of their own free choice.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But, I doubt if people will be able to go back to living simply and without the things we have today... unless forced.

I can say that one can change the mindset of wanting more and more material possessions, over spiritual attributes.

A balance must be found.

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Isn’t that limited liability company that can also be owned by its workers?

I think workers share their success in normal (non-communistic) companies. If they do well, the company gets orders and workers get their wages.

I think it works best when the workers have a decent share in the company and co own themselves.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I can say that one can change the mindset of wanting more and more material possessions, over spiritual attributes.

A balance must be found.

Regards Tony
Here in California in the San Francisco Bay area the basic necessities are a three or four bedroom house which can cost a million. The husband and wife need a car plus one for each kid as they get old enough. They might need a boat and motorhome for family vacations. They'll probably need skis and snowboards. Each member of the family will need a cell phone and a computer. During the heat of summer, it'd be nice to have a pool. Add in property taxes, water, gas and electricity, internet service and dish or cable. They've got to have a huge refrigerator and all the small appliances that need to be replaced every so often.

On the other side of the hills everybody probably wants all those things, but they can't afford them. They have an older house, but it still cost at least a half a million. So some people can only afford to rent a house or apartment. They need a car to get around, but they can't afford a new car, so they buy an old clunker. They don't have enough money to buy their kids things, so some of the kids steal or sell drugs to get the latest kind of shoes, clothes and jewelry and nice car... you know the necessities. Anyway yes, there is a great disparity. But most all are stuck in the mindset that wants material things.

With the pandemic, everything shut down that wasn't a necessity. How many manufacturing jobs make things that people really don't need? How many fast food restaurants do we really need? And is that really healthy kind of food? Or, just convenient? How many agricultural jobs and manufacturing jobs depend on cheap labor? And if it ain't here, how many companies relocate to someplace where the labor is cheap? How many companies have exploited people and countries to get their raw materials? How many white collar jobs are really necessary? How many salespeople do we need? How many middlemen do we need?

How much pollution do we allow a manufacturing plant to produce so we can have all those things we need? How much chemical fertilizer and insecticide to we need to make sure we can grow enough food? In the U.S. you're are probably not going to get a lot of support for change. Too many of us need all these "necessities" of modern life. I imagine we'll keep going and keep ignoring all those people that say we are heading for disaster. Like some here in this country ignored the coronavirus. It will take more disasters, but at least this is getting more people thinking about positive change.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Here in California in the San Francisco Bay area the basic necessities are a three or four bedroom house which can cost a million. The husband and wife need a car plus one for each kid as they get old enough. They might need a boat and motorhome for family vacations. They'll probably need skis and snowboards. Each member of the family will need a cell phone and a computer. During the heat of summer, it'd be nice to have a pool. Add in property taxes, water, gas and electricity, internet service and dish or cable. They've got to have a huge refrigerator and all the small appliances that need to be replaced every so often.

On the other side of the hills everybody probably wants all those things, but they can't afford them. They have an older house, but it still cost at least a half a million. So some people can only afford to rent a house or apartment. They need a car to get around, but they can't afford a new car, so they buy an old clunker. They don't have enough money to buy their kids things, so some of the kids steal or sell drugs to get the latest kind of shoes, clothes and jewelry and nice car... you know the necessities. Anyway yes, there is a great disparity. But most all are stuck in the mindset that wants material things.

With the pandemic, everything shut down that wasn't a necessity. How many manufacturing jobs make things that people really don't need? How many fast food restaurants do we really need? And is that really healthy kind of food? Or, just convenient? How many agricultural jobs and manufacturing jobs depend on cheap labor? And if it ain't here, how many companies relocate to someplace where the labor is cheap? How many companies have exploited people and countries to get their raw materials? How many white collar jobs are really necessary? How many salespeople do we need? How many middlemen do we need?

How much pollution do we allow a manufacturing plant to produce so we can have all those things we need? How much chemical fertilizer and insecticide to we need to make sure we can grow enough food? In the U.S. you're are probably not going to get a lot of support for change. Too many of us need all these "necessities" of modern life. I imagine we'll keep going and keep ignoring all those people that say we are heading for disaster. Like some here in this country ignored the coronavirus. It will take more disasters, but at least this is getting more people thinking about positive change.

CG - Have a watch of this, I just finished and it reflects all the questions you asked.


It is a real eyeopener, all the way through it, the solutions offered by the shows participants, to me, just mirror what Baha'u'llah said needed to happen. One could say we were fore warned.

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Things can't keep going in the direction they've been going. But, I doubt if people will be able to go back to living simply and without the things we have today... unless forced. Disease and climate change could be the things that cause the change to happen. I never would have thought a virus could stop the whole world. Then add more tornadoes, hurricanes, forest fires, rising sea levels? It seems unlikely that enough people are going to want to change until the whole thing collapses. Then, when everyone asks, will the Baha'is be ready will a working plan?

The world in my view needs a new spirit not just a change of clothes. We Baha',is who are only a tiny minority and a work in progress have a long way to go and a lot of very hard work to do to reach that stage where we can really be of service to humanity.

This is a favourite song of mine I just came across recently which I thought to share with people here because it aspires to something that I think we all would like to see a lot more of in our world today.

 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The world in my view needs a new spirit not just a change of clothes. We Baha',is who are only a tiny minority and a work in progress have a long way to go and a lot of very hard work to do to reach that stage where we can really be of service to humanity.

This is a favourite song of mine I just came across recently which I thought to share with people here because it aspires to something that I think we all would like to see a lot more of in our world today.


Loved the song.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
- Have a watch of this, I just finished and it reflects all the questions you asked.

This is a favourite song of mine I just came across recently which I thought to share with people here because it aspires to something that I think we all would like to see a lot more of in our world today.
I listened to the song. Yeah, it sweet and nice and all, but I like some other Aussie bands like AC/DC and INXS... not very sweet and nice. Actually, any songs you want to send along, I'll be glad to listen too. And Tony, haven't watched the video yet.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I listened to the song. Yeah, it sweet and nice and all, but I like some other Aussie bands like AC/DC and INXS... not very sweet and nice. Actually, any songs to want to send along, I'll be glad to listen too. And Tony, haven't watched the video yet.

It is quite an eye opener :)

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It is quite an eye opener :)

Regards Tony
What? That I listen to AC/DC and INXS? No, actually, I'm surprised this thread isn't getting more responses. So maybe you, me and Loverofhumanity can discuss it. First thing that comes to mind is White Collar crime and political corruption. Maybe the Baha'is try to get virtuous people as their leaders, but cheating, lying, exploiting does work to get people into powerful positions and to make a lot of money. I put them into the same class of people as Mob Bosses and Drug Lords. How do we fix that?

As we all know, even "religious" people have their get rich schemes and exploit their followers to get rich. Like even centuries ago when Martin Luther complained about the corruption in the Church that included all the Bishops and even the Popes. Then, even Baha's say that the early leaders of Islam were corrupt. But, Baha'is say the world government will be a secular government? So even if the Baha'is have great leaders running things for the Baha'is, how do we get good, honest people to run governments and businesses?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe the Baha'is try to get virtuous people as their leaders, but cheating, lying, exploiting does work to get people into powerful positions and to make a lot of money. I put them into the same class of people as Mob Bosses and Drug Lords. How do we fix that?

The example is the Baha'i Administrative System.

Like all good things it takes effort to make it work.

We will have to wait and see how it will all unfold, as the majority are still clinging to a collapsing Old World Order.

Did you watch the documentary?

RegardsTony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What? That I listen to AC/DC and INXS? No, actually, I'm surprised this thread isn't getting more responses. So maybe you, me and Loverofhumanity can discuss it. First thing that comes to mind is White Collar crime and political corruption. Maybe the Baha'is try to get virtuous people as their leaders, but cheating, lying, exploiting does work to get people into powerful positions and to make a lot of money. I put them into the same class of people as Mob Bosses and Drug Lords. How do we fix that?

As we all know, even "religious" people have their get rich schemes and exploit their followers to get rich. Like even centuries ago when Martin Luther complained about the corruption in the Church that included all the Bishops and even the Popes. Then, even Baha's say that the early leaders of Islam were corrupt. But, Baha'is say the world government will be a secular government? So even if the Baha'is have great leaders running things for the Baha'is, how do we get good, honest people to run governments and businesses?

The example is the Baha'i Administrative System.

Like all good things it takes effort to make it work.

We will have to wait and see how it will all unfold, as the majority are still clinging to a collapsing Old World Order.

Did you watch the documentary?

RegardsTony

I am beginning to see clearly why the world gets to such a state and why we can not embrace the change God offers us and it was this quote I found for another OP that I now offer as an after thought to you;

"If thou dost ponder a while, it will be evident that it is incumbent upon a lowly servant to acquiesce to whatever proof God hath appointed, and not to follow his own idle fancy." The Báb, Selections from the Writings of the Báb, p. 122

The documentary I posted to you to consider to watch was made in 2016 and has won awards and is very well put together.

Every issue it raises has been give an answer by Baha'u'llah and has a solution in the Baha'i Writings (which I see is inclusive of all of God's Word), so one must observe, given the above quote, that it is a person's own choices to pursue the answers, as to if they will find them and take a path to a clearer vision of what this world is.

Regards Tony
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
I figure this news blurb fits in this thread
since it reflects the model which is being indicated as one to impose in north america
and done ostensibly to
“helped save personnel expenditures and increased work efficiency.”
China is installing surveillance cameras inside people's homes
1 _7aEWkExSZmGJFDkwsSjHw.jpeg
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Even in the Solomon Islands there is no welfare system, but they do have a medical system.

Education is not free though, people with no income can not get education for their children, thus the cycle of poverty repeats, while the few well to do keep feeding their wealth.

To me it all points towards a change in mindset is needed, a spiritual solution to the economic problem is required.

I am optimistic that can happen, because we see it does happen, people do choose to give away wealth to others of their own free choice.

Regards Tony
I watched just a few minutes of the video. So maybe what I'm going to say is addressed there, but anyway. Modern Capitalistic Society creates divisions in wealth and power. Tribal societies took care of all their people and all the people helped do the things needed to make sure everyone had food and shelter. Then those people got exploited. Some people are still exploited. Nobody wants to do the dirty and hard work. So what is the Baha'i plan to get fruit and vegetables picked? Trash and other waste picked up and put somewhere? Whose going to clean the streets and the windows? If a person is smart enough, and takes advantage of a society that allows them to get a higher education, then who will be left to do the dirty jobs? There won't be desperate legal and illegal immigrants to exploit. Slave labor won't be allowed. So who in their right mind would take these jobs if the opportunity was there to get something better?

The other problem is that these people on the bottom aren't paid very much. Even in the U.S. manufacturing companies leave and set up their factories where they can exploit the cheap labor... maybe even child labor. In a Baha'i world, that's not going to be available. A factory is going to have to pay people enough to live on, but that'll make the product cost more. But, whose going to want to work in a factory, again, if the opportunities to get a better education and a better job are available to them? So any ideas?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Hi everyone!

From everything that’s going on it seems that apart from the sad human toll and suffering as a result of the Corona Virus, the effect on the world economy is even more devastating.

I have a positive view of all this. One that says that the present day system is being ‘rolled up” to be replaced by a new one that hopefully is better and far more just.

What could replace it or what should replace it in your view? Will it be a more ‘spiritual ‘ or same greed based system?

I don't think anything is going to change.
If anything, movements in economy that were already taking place, is just going to accelerate.

Like the move from "physical shops" to "online shops", for example.
Millenials were pretty much already down with online stores like amazone etc.

Other people, say aged 35 or older, were still far more likely to shop in physical stores. The older the person, the higher the chances of shopping in physical stores. Thinking physical stores are fine, why would I buy online? Or who were simply distrusting of online shopping.

Now these past few months MANY have tasted what online shopping is about. And MANY likely were surprised by how easy it was and how convenient it is to push a few buttons and then have a delivery at your doorstep, sometimes even the very same day.

Now the authorities are going to do big pushes and investments to support "local businesses", but I think most of it will be in vain. I think this whole thing is only going to accelerate globalism (in terms of the moving of goods) and online shopping even more then it ever did.

Short term, I expect international travel of people to get a serious blow. Meaning the flight companies are going to get it really really rough. And that also includes all third party companies, like plane manufacturers etc. I expect that many of them will simply go bankrupt or get nationalized.


So no, I don't think this is the end of economic activity as we know it. Instead, I expect the opposite. The trends that were already happening, are just going to accelerate: the outcompeting of small local physical stores by big chains and online multi-nationals.

So the fabulously rich of this online world, are only going to get even more rich, while the "local enterpreneurs" that compete with them are only going to get hurt even harder.

As for bars and restaurants, they too will have a rough ride ahead of them to regain the consumer's trust. Which I don't really see happening until a real solution is in place in the form of a vaccine or "miracle cure".
 
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