Is this potential evidence for the resurrection of Christ?

[stvdv]

No I'm not a believer, I'm just a person who's unsure of the resurrection trying to look at the believer's side of the argument.

Okay. I understand now, you are not a believer.

But I was indirectly also answering the title "is this potential evidence for the resurrection of Christ"?

When we were not there, and have not seen it ourselves, it will always be "what I believe to be true"

So in my opinion, it will only be "potential evidence" when I have seen it myself, speaking about spiritual truths.

All the rest I would call 'hearsay', not "potential evidence" (again, only speaking about this specific case of Jesus resurrection)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

or else Cthulhu can be said to be real based on the "bloop" noise in the Pacific ocean as it originated approximately where Lovecraft put the sunken city of R'lyeh.

We know it was an ice quake.

Bloop - Wikipedia

 

[Jos]

What if does not work unless there is proof that he was a historical person.
Otherwise, it could just as easily be a story. How can we know?

OK, then what methodology other than stories and personal testimonies can one use to determine the historicity or lack thereof of a person? Because other than those two pieces of evidences, I can't see how we can do so.

 

[stvdv]

Isn't a personal experience of Jesus one way of knowing whether or not the resurrection happened?

Yes, I fully agree. For me it is all about "my own personal experience" before I really can say 'I know'

 

[lukethethird]

I know that but that's kinda my point, I'm wondering if it's just a story or an actual historical event... that's the big question.

Ok, true believer, if you say so.

 

[ChristineM]

"Ewww! Gross!" That would be my reaction, but respectfully asking, how is that related to the question asked in the OP?

More than gross, the one touched in those wounds would be in screaming agony, this is not mentioned and i believe it is significant for the story

 

[Trailblazer]

Isn't a personal experience of Jesus one way of knowing whether or not the resurrection happened?

Who alive today has had a personal experience of Jesus?
Granted, many people believe they have one, but how could they ever have one, given Jesus is nowhere to be seen?
Imo, whatever relationship they have is through the NT scriptures, as they can only relate to Jesus through what He said.

Fair point, I guess you're right but I asked this question because I wanted to look at the argument through the lens of a believer.

Oh, I did not know that. I thought you were trying to be a believer.

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, then what methodology other than stories and personal testimonies can one use to determine the historicity or lack thereof of a person? Because other than those two pieces of evidences, I can't see how we can do so.

I do not know, I am not a historian, but Imo that is all we have. If we had more than it would be a historical fact that certain people in the Bible actually existed.

 

[QuestioningMind]

See this post from an earlier response:
"I was being hypothetical when I stated that I assumed that it was true... it was meant to be a hypothetical assumption."

If you hypothetically assume that any part of the bible is true then hypothetically it would become evidence.

 

[Audie]

Fair point about the flood story and the eyewitnesses to Joseph Smith's work but like I said, it's a hypothetical assumption... I was just assuming it's truth to state that it would be evidence of the resurrection if the story was a recording of an actual historical event.

“ It’s true if it’s true” is not very deep

 

[Jos]

We can't even call the Bible a personal experience. If it is, then Beowulf and the Divine Comedy too are accounts of personal experience. Chaucer too with his stories such as Canterbury Tales.

No, I'm not calling the Bible a personal experience... again, speaking hypothetically, if a person had an actual personal experience of a risen Christ, wouldn't that count as evidence that the resurrection occurred?

 

[Jos]

Okay. I understand now, you are not a believer.

But I was indirectly also answering the title "is this potential evidence for the resurrection of Christ"?

When we were not there, and have not seen it ourselves, it will always be "what I believe to be true"

So in my opinion, it will only be "potential evidence" when I have seen it myself, speaking about spiritual truths.

All the rest I would call 'hearsay', not "potential evidence" (again, only speaking about this specific case of Jesus resurrection)

OK I understand but don't you rely on hearsay in everyday life to determine whether or not an event occurred? Isn't a lot of history based on hearsay?

 

[Jos]

Ok, true believer, if you say so.

I'm not a believer.... as I've stated elsewhere in this thread, I was speaking hypothetically with my assumptions and I'm agnostic about the resurrection but am trying to look at the argument through the lens of a believer.

 

[Jos]

More than gross, the one touched in those wounds would be in screaming agony, this is not mentioned and i believe it is significant for the story

I agree with you but a Christian could respond by saying that Jesus is God and God wouldn't get hurt by physical stuff like that.

 

[Jos]

Who alive today has had a personal experience of Jesus?
Granted, many people believe they have one, but how could they ever have one, given Jesus is nowhere to be seen?
Imo, whatever relationship they have is through the NT scriptures, as they can only relate to Jesus through what He said.

Well the stories are out there of people who've claimed to have experiences of him, some sound pretty compelling IMO but I guess we'll never know since we weren't there or didn't have the same experience.

Oh, I did not know that. I thought you were trying to be a believer.

No I'm trying to be a bit open minded to the believer's position.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, I'm not calling the Bible a personal experience... again, speaking hypothetically, if a person had an actual personal experience of a risen Christ, wouldn't that count as evidence that the resurrection occurred?

Yes, if. But we can apply that reasoning to the Iliad and Odyssey, making it a personal account that includes making Achilles, King Minos, and the minotaur real people.

 

[Jos]

I do not know, I am not a historian, but Imo that is all we have. If we had more than it would be a historical fact that certain people in the Bible actually existed.

Exactly! So, should we really fault Christians for their beliefs given that the best evidence available are stories, testimony and claims to personal experience? Idk

 

[Jos]

If you hypothetically assume that any part of the bible is true then hypothetically it would become evidence.

Right but would you say that personal experience is good evidence? If you personally experienced the risen Christ is that good enough to establish the occurrence of the resurrection?

 

[Jos]

“ It’s true if it’s true” is not very deep

I know it's not very deep but I'm not the claim either way that the resurrection did or did not happen... what I am doing or trying to do is trying figure out how trustworthy personal testimony and experiences are in reaching conclusions about purported historical events.

 

[Jos]

Yes, if. But we can apply that reasoning to the Iliad and Odyssey, making it a personal account that includes making Achilles, King Minos, and the minotaur real people.

True so I now I ask, if you had an encounter or what seemed to be an encounter with the risen Christ would that be enough to establish that the resurrection happened or would you need external verification of your experience?