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Featured Is this logical?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, I do not have the entire list but that is a good question.
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I already have... Have you?
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not believe that dreams are God communicating directly.
    If there is any God communication going on, it is indirect, since we have to decipher what it means.
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I fully agree. It has too many negatives and the true God has definite attributes, but as the OP states I did not write that.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That is true and that is a good point. The prophecies Baha’u’llah made in the past have been fulfilled. Now, we can see that because it is the future. Some of His prophecies have not yet been fulfilled because they refer to the Messianic Age which is only beginning.
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Good catch. ;)

    Communicate is the wrong word because I do not think that the writer of the OP meant a back and forth conversation. The word he should have used is speaking, which would mean God saying something in order to convey information; for example, God might say "I am God and I exist.".
     
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    The way the argument is expressed (particularly the bit where it says "if God exists") implies that God is not assumed.
     
  8. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    As I have stated repeatedly:

    All frauds, or con men, or delusional. Their followers? All deluded.

    All except you and yours. Uh huh.

    Can't you see how silly that is?
     
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  9. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Actually, I put the verse in the context of the preceding verses. That is something you did not do. Based on preceding verses, I showed that Micah clearly was referring to God. How do we know this? Because the preceding verses said "God"!

    That's right, Baha’u’llah is not God, Baha’u’llah was not God, and the Micah verses refer to God.

    Your comments that Baha’u’llah was the Lord of Hosts is nonsensical. "Lord of Hosts" is a term Bahais made up to try to make it seem that when Micah was clearly talking about God he was talking about your Baha’u’llah.

    You should realize that if you have to go through such mental gymnastics to make things fit, your concept is ridiculous. But you don't and you never will.
     
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  10. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    There is good reason stuff like this is called delusional.
     
  11. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    What prophecies have been fulfilled? Do you twist Babaullah's words like you tried to do with Micha's?
     
  12. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    But conveying information requires two: one to speak, and one to listen. I probably argued this before, but some people are incapable of listening. It's not necessarily a failure on God's part to speak.
     
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  13. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    That is precisely God assumed.
     
  14. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    From the Jewish Bible Micah 7:12 There shall be a day when they shall come unto thee, from Assyria even to the cities of Egypt, and from Egypt even to the River, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
    New Revised Standard Micah 7:12 (NRS) In that day they will come to you from Assyria to Egypt, and from Egypt to the River, from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain.
    New King James Micah 7:12 (NKJV) In that day they shall come to you From Assyria and the fortified cities, From the fortress to the River, From sea to sea, And mountain to mountain.
    New American Standard Micah 7:12 (NAS) It will be a day when they will come to you From Assyria and the cities of Egypt, From Egypt even to the Euphrates, Even from sea to sea and mountain to mountain.​

    Who is "they"?

    New International Version Micah 7:12 (NIV) In that day people will come to you from Assyria and the cities of Egypt, even from Egypt to the Euphrates and from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain.
    Complete Jewish Bible Micah 7:12 (CJB) a day when [your] people will come [back] to you from Ashur and from the cities of Egypt, from Egypt and from as far as the Euphrates River, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
    "They" are people. It sounds like drawing the tribes of Israel back together? But, Bill Sears quotes from the King James...

    Micah 7:12 (KJV) In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
    Why would he quote from a translation that says "he" and leaves off any mention of "Egypt"? Duh, to fulfill a prophecy. So Ecco could be right. The verse is about God. You and Bill Sears could be right. It is about Baha'u'llah. Or, all the other versions could be right and it is talking about "they", which might be "people", the Jewish people. Is it worth going any further, since I know, in the end, nobody is going to change their minds? Actually, we should. Because it would show if Baha'u'llah really fulfilled a prophecy. Or, if a prophecy was made out of an interpretation of one translation and ignored the other translations. And, do we trust the King James Version as being the most reliable and accurate?
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    There is nothing silly about it at all because there are only a handful of true Prophets.

    There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support that the Bab and Baha'u'llah were true Prophets but those others cannot produce any real evidence.
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am not going to argue with you about the *meaning* of Bible verses. I stopped doing that long ago. I do not need to prove I am right about Baha'u'llah to anyone because I have absolute certitude and that is a personal thing you cannot take away from me.

    As I told the two posters on my forum who were ranking on my beliefs "Have Fun."
    I have better things to do than argue the same things over and over and over and over again.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I already told you more than once where those prophecies can be found:
    William Sears, Thief in the Night

    Have fun. :)
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    So God speaking directly to everyone would mean God spoke but they did not necessarily listen and hear what God said....
    And God communicating directly to everyone would mean God spoke and they heard and listened.

    Thanks again. :) This is going to be very useful for a new thread I am about to post.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That is assuming that Sears had an agenda and that is not fair. He had to pick a translation since he could not quote and interpret the meaning of every translation.
    But even if it is about the Jewish people, we all know that the Jewis people have come back since 1844 so the prophecy was fulfilled.
    Do you understand how futile it is to try to figure this one verse out, given how the translations differ markedly? Unless we can KNOW which translation is actually correct, it makes no sense to bother conjecturing.

    If you want to know if Baha'u'llah fulfilled the Bible prophecies, it makes more sense to read Thief in the Night by William Sears because then you are looking at all the prophecies, not just one that could be interpreted in different ways. More evidence is always better.
     
  20. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Self-refuting as one must establish a claim is evidence ergo a claim is not defacto evidence.

    No I look at the lack of evidence of those making a specific claim regarding their so-called Messenger.
     
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