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Is This Evidence Of Satan? Did He Write An Antibible? Is It Evolution?

james bond

Well-Known Member
Sorry this is long.

I ended up in a heated discussion with someone, whom I think was an atheist and evolutionist, who exclaimed birds came from dinosaurs. I said that I didn't think little, tiny birds evolved from great, big, gigantic dinosaurs and that Oregon State University research showed that a bird's lung development was different from a dinosaur's, i.e. a bird would not be able to breathe and fly if they had lungs like dinosaurs. He came back and insisted, "BIRDS ARE DINOSAURS!" and went on to explain in a rant like fashion. I looked at my six days of creation chart and saw that birds or flying animals were created on the 5th day while land animals were created on the 6th. Now, I didn't tell him this, but it dawned on me that whatever atheists/evolutionists believe contradicts what God stated in the first two books of Genesis.

Days-of-Creation-A1.png


So, my questions is -- Is this evidence for Satan? First, Satan doesn't want you to believe he exists, so people usually do not want proof of Satan nor does anyone even bring him up for discussion. Non-believers want proof of God when there isn't any proof for an unproveable God. When you end up discussing God with them, you find they usually blame God for something such as evil in the OT or why does he allow babies to suffer? Whatever evidence you present is not good enough. One atheist said if God opened the ground in front of him and gave him a brand new car of his choice, then he'll believe. Um... it takes faith... but you do not even get to that point.

What I am getting at using the Bible and science in regards to Satan is to show evidence that he exists. In the Bible and Genesis, we have God created the heavens and Earth from nothing, but evolutionary thinking says it was the big bang which caused it from nothing. Before that it was the eternal universe.

God created Adam and Eve as adult humans and animals as adult animals. Instead, the naysayers and evolutionists believey, no, we had the egg before the chicken and abiogenesis, so this is how life came into existence and evolved.

And so on. It turned out that everything I could think of between creation and atheist/evolutionary beliefs contradicted each other. All of these debates have come down throughout the centuries, so there could be no collaboration as to what the people who came up with the evolutionary hypothesis wrote. These writers were scientists in different fields of work and it was written at different times. There was no intent to disprove the Bible in their hypothesis and discoveries. It wasn't put together in a book like the Bible (took 1500 years), but if it was, then it was as if Satan had wrote an antiGenesis as what Evolution (since the 1850s with uniformitarianism and then Darwin's bood) has become today.

These contradictions goes beyond that, too. It isn't just evolution, but moral values such as not killing a fetus vs. abortion and a woman's rights, homosexuality vs. man and woman marriage, and even how the world is going to end -- global fire vs. AGW (old) or huge asteroid hits the earth causing a catastrophic chain reaction (new). It turns out that everything that God stated in the Bible is contradicted by Satan. Maybe that's just his rebellious nature and he can't help himself.

Thus, when you add all the contradictions up, is this evidence for Satan? Does this convince you that Satan is causing it? I found out in my law enforcement part of career -- bad stuff usually does not happen by coincidence. For example, there is a killing around 2 am in the morning and the head of a nearby statue is broken off. Then a week later, another killing and another head of a nearby statue is neatly cut off.

Here are some things that are opposite off the top of my head.

GOD >>>>> SATAN
Said it first in the Bible ( Bible can't change) >>>>> Said it throughout the years (hypothesis and theories can change)
Universe >>>>> Multiverse
Creation ex nihilo (supernatural creation in 6 days) >>>>> Universe ex nihilo, i.e. big bang (defies laws of physics, infinite temp and density, all is set up in 20 mins); Before this, it was eternal universe
6,000 yrs old Earth and universe >>>>> 4.5 B yrs old Earth and 13.7 B yrs old universe
Created Adam and Eve >>>>> Humans evolved from monkeys
Created birds 5th day; dinosaurs 6th day >>>>> birds evolved from <strikeout>reptile</strikeout> dinosaurs
Clear explanation of how universe and Earth formed and science backs it up >>>>> Wild hypothesis of infinitely hot and dense unseen particle called singularity; Some event called big bang triggered a cosmic expansion in microseconds that formed the basis for our universe; not clear explanation of what happened
Life can only create life >>>>> Life forms through abiogenesis (based on spontaneous generation that was proven false by creation scientist Dr. Louis Pasteur)
Started with void >>>>> Started with infinitely hot and dense unseen quantum particle
God is timeless and spaceless >>>>> Quantum particles pop in and out of existence
God is light, i.e. EMS or light >>>>> Things happen through dark energy, dark matter
Universe is bounded and has a center >>>>> Universe is boundless and does not have a center
Earth is special >>>>> There is nothing special about the Earth
Heaven (upward direction) >>>>> Hell (downward direction)

Sorry for the poor formatting. It did not take my spaces/tabs.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
.

Non-believers want proof of God when there isn't any proof for an unproveable God. When you end up discussing God with them, you find they usually blame God for something such as evil in the OT or why does he allow babies to suffer? Whatever evidence you present is not good enough. One atheist said if God opened the ground in front of him and gave him a brand new car of his choice, then he'll believe. Um... it takes faith... but you do not even get to that point.

.
Question for you.
Atheists don't believe in god; so how can I blame something I don't believe exists?

We ask if your god is good and compassionate then how can you explain suffering of innocent children?
Your example of the atheist wanting a car - well in that example that atheist obviously believed there was evidence of a god. So, yes, he'd believe.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Question for you.
Atheists don't believe in god; so how can I blame something I don't believe exists?

We ask if your god is good and compassionate then how can you explain suffering of innocent children?
Your example of the atheist wanting a car - well in that example that atheist obviously believed there was evidence of a god. So, yes, he'd believe.

Why can't you answer my question?

As for the atheist wanting the ground to open up in front of him and getting a new car, it was done in the past but their beliefs doesn't last. They eventually forget about God.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you could find some evidence for Satan that would be rather amazing. And it is an error to think that evolution opposes God. It is not one or the other. We know that evolution occurred. At best one can only believe in God. If you demand an either or then the right answer is atheism. I do try to keep an open mind and if sufficient evidence was found for God I would change my mind. I might not worship that God, many versions of God do not merit worship. But I could believe in one.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Sorry this is long.

I ended up in a heated discussion with someone, whom I think was an atheist and evolutionist, who exclaimed birds came from dinosaurs. I said that I didn't think little, tiny birds evolved from great, big, gigantic dinosaurs and that Oregon State University research showed that a bird's lung development was different from a dinosaur's, i.e. a bird would not be able to breathe and fly if they had lungs like dinosaurs. He came back and insisted, "BIRDS ARE DINOSAURS!" and went on to explain in a rant like fashion. I looked at my six days of creation chart and saw that birds or flying animals were created on the 5th day while land animals were created on the 6th. Now, I didn't tell him this, but it dawned on me that whatever atheists/evolutionists believe contradicts what God stated in the first two books of Genesis.

Days-of-Creation-A1.png


So, my questions is -- Is this evidence for Satan? First, Satan doesn't want you to believe he exists, so people usually do not want proof of Satan nor does anyone even bring him up for discussion. Non-believers want proof of God when there isn't any proof for an unproveable God. When you end up discussing God with them, you find they usually blame God for something such as evil in the OT or why does he allow babies to suffer? Whatever evidence you present is not good enough. One atheist said if God opened the ground in front of him and gave him a brand new car of his choice, then he'll believe. Um... it takes faith... but you do not even get to that point.

What I am getting at using the Bible and science in regards to Satan is to show evidence that he exists. In the Bible and Genesis, we have God created the heavens and Earth from nothing, but evolutionary thinking says it was the big bang which caused it from nothing. Before that it was the eternal universe.

God created Adam and Eve as adult humans and animals as adult animals. Instead, the naysayers and evolutionists believey, no, we had the egg before the chicken and abiogenesis, so this is how life came into existence and evolved.

And so on. It turned out that everything I could think of between creation and atheist/evolutionary beliefs contradicted each other. All of these debates have come down throughout the centuries, so there could be no collaboration as to what the people who came up with the evolutionary hypothesis wrote. These writers were scientists in different fields of work and it was written at different times. There was no intent to disprove the Bible in their hypothesis and discoveries. It wasn't put together in a book like the Bible (took 1500 years), but if it was, then it was as if Satan had wrote an antiGenesis as what Evolution (since the 1850s with uniformitarianism and then Darwin's bood) has become today.

These contradictions goes beyond that, too. It isn't just evolution, but moral values such as not killing a fetus vs. abortion and a woman's rights, homosexuality vs. man and woman marriage, and even how the world is going to end -- global fire vs. AGW (old) or huge asteroid hits the earth causing a catastrophic chain reaction (new). It turns out that everything that God stated in the Bible is contradicted by Satan. Maybe that's just his rebellious nature and he can't help himself.

Thus, when you add all the contradictions up, is this evidence for Satan? Does this convince you that Satan is causing it? I found out in my law enforcement part of career -- bad stuff usually does not happen by coincidence. For example, there is a killing around 2 am in the morning and the head of a nearby statue is broken off. Then a week later, another killing and another head of a nearby statue is neatly cut off.

Here are some things that are opposite off the top of my head.

GOD >>>>> SATAN
Said it first in the Bible ( Bible can't change) >>>>> Said it throughout the years (hypothesis and theories can change)
Universe >>>>> Multiverse
Creation ex nihilo (supernatural creation in 6 days) >>>>> Universe ex nihilo, i.e. big bang (defies laws of physics, infinite temp and density, all is set up in 20 mins); Before this, it was eternal universe
6,000 yrs old Earth and universe >>>>> 4.5 B yrs old Earth and 13.7 B yrs old universe
Created Adam and Eve >>>>> Humans evolved from monkeys
Created birds 5th day; dinosaurs 6th day >>>>> birds evolved from <strikeout>reptile</strikeout> dinosaurs
Clear explanation of how universe and Earth formed and science backs it up >>>>> Wild hypothesis of infinitely hot and dense unseen particle called singularity; Some event called big bang triggered a cosmic expansion in microseconds that formed the basis for our universe; not clear explanation of what happened
Life can only create life >>>>> Life forms through abiogenesis (based on spontaneous generation that was proven false by creation scientist Dr. Louis Pasteur)
Started with void >>>>> Started with infinitely hot and dense unseen quantum particle
God is timeless and spaceless >>>>> Quantum particles pop in and out of existence
God is light, i.e. EMS or light >>>>> Things happen through dark energy, dark matter
Universe is bounded and has a center >>>>> Universe is boundless and does not have a center
Earth is special >>>>> There is nothing special about the Earth
Heaven (upward direction) >>>>> Hell (downward direction)

Sorry for the poor formatting. It did not take my spaces/tabs.

What I don't get is how the two theories are incompatible? I know many people who believe in both a Creator, and Evolution. They aren't mutually exclusive, just like many scientists are religious.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
If you could find some evidence for Satan that would be rather amazing. And it is an error to think that evolution opposes God. It is not one or the other. We know that evolution occurred. At best one can only believe in God. If you demand an either or then the right answer is atheism. I do try to keep an open mind and if sufficient evidence was found for God I would change my mind. I might not worship that God, many versions of God do not merit worship. But I could believe in one.

Normally, we do not discuss Satan. I think the only people who like to bring it up is The Satanic Temple.

I don't enjoy discussing it either, but this is a TRUTH I found. In the Bible, Satan has a rebellious personality and he relishes having the same power as God (not really), but he has great power.

He is considered the Father of Lies and he pulled the wool over Adam and Eve's eyes and took Adam's dominion of the world. He is called the "god of the world and the prince of the power of the air."

All of the contradictions to God's word and science cannot be coincidence. It also just does not apply to science, but moral values, and even how the world is supposed to end.

I do not know any other way than to think evolution opposes God. What part of it doesn't? For example, a key piece would be creation vs abiogenesis. You can't have one where we are created from the Earth in the ground and God's breath vs abiogenesis. We find abiogenesis does not happen scientifically.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
What I don't get is how the two theories are incompatible? I know many people who believe in both a Creator, and Evolution. They aren't mutually exclusive, just like many scientists are religious.

I provided my first example of God created dinosaurs on the sixth day as land animals. Today, evolutionists insist birds evolved from gigantic dinosaurs. This is not possible through microevolution or natural selection if birds and flying creatures were created on the 5th day and came before dinosaurs. Thus, are you saying that birds from dinosaurs is wrong? There are strange flying reptiles, but they're just part of natural selection of reptiles.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Normally, we do not discuss Satan. I think the only people who like to bring it up is The Satanic Temple.

I don't enjoy discussing it either, but this is a TRUTH I found. In the Bible, Satan has a rebellious personality and he relishes having the same power as God (not really), but he has great power.

He is considered the Father of Lies and he pulled the wool over Adam and Eve's eyes and took Adam's dominion of the world. He is called the "god of the world and the prince of the power of the air."

All of the contradictions to God's word and science cannot be coincidence. It also just does not apply to science, but moral values, and even how the world is supposed to end.

I do not know any other way than to think evolution opposes God. What part of it doesn't? For example, a key piece would be creation vs abiogenesis. You can't have one where we are created from the Earth in the ground and God's breath vs abiogenesis. We find abiogenesis does not happen scientifically.
From my understanding most Satanists do not believe in Satan. It is more of a symbol and a bard at Christians than anything else. And it is not wise to use words such as "TRUTH" to lightly.

It is an error to call the Bible "God's word" one has to use some mental acrobatics to justify that claim and since the Bible can be shown to be wrong so many times it is not a very good position to take either. By doing so one ends up refuting one's own beliefs if one investigates them. All or nothing is a losing philosophy.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I provided my first example of God created dinosaurs on the sixth day as land animals. Today, evolutionists insist birds evolved from gigantic dinosaurs. This is not possible through microevolution or natural selection if birds and flying creatures were created on the 5th day and came before dinosaurs. Thus, are you saying that birds from dinosaurs is wrong? There are strange flying reptiles, but they're just part of natural selection of reptiles.
Right, this is an example of an interpretation of the Bible being demonstrably wrong. Thank you for such an excellent example.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Sorry this is long.

I ended up in a heated discussion with someone, whom I think was an atheist and evolutionist, who exclaimed birds came from dinosaurs. I said that I didn't think little, tiny birds evolved from great, big, gigantic dinosaurs and that Oregon State University research showed that a bird's lung development was different from a dinosaur's, i.e. a bird would not be able to breathe and fly if they had lungs like dinosaurs. He came back and insisted, "BIRDS ARE DINOSAURS!" and went on to explain in a rant like fashion. I looked at my six days of creation chart and saw that birds or flying animals were created on the 5th day while land animals were created on the 6th. Now, I didn't tell him this, but it dawned on me that whatever atheists/evolutionists believe contradicts what God stated in the first two books of Genesis.

Days-of-Creation-A1.png


So, my questions is -- Is this evidence for Satan? First, Satan doesn't want you to believe he exists, so people usually do not want proof of Satan nor does anyone even bring him up for discussion. Non-believers want proof of God when there isn't any proof for an unproveable God. When you end up discussing God with them, you find they usually blame God for something such as evil in the OT or why does he allow babies to suffer? Whatever evidence you present is not good enough. One atheist said if God opened the ground in front of him and gave him a brand new car of his choice, then he'll believe. Um... it takes faith... but you do not even get to that point.

What I am getting at using the Bible and science in regards to Satan is to show evidence that he exists. In the Bible and Genesis, we have God created the heavens and Earth from nothing, but evolutionary thinking says it was the big bang which caused it from nothing. Before that it was the eternal universe.

God created Adam and Eve as adult humans and animals as adult animals. Instead, the naysayers and evolutionists believey, no, we had the egg before the chicken and abiogenesis, so this is how life came into existence and evolved.

And so on. It turned out that everything I could think of between creation and atheist/evolutionary beliefs contradicted each other. All of these debates have come down throughout the centuries, so there could be no collaboration as to what the people who came up with the evolutionary hypothesis wrote. These writers were scientists in different fields of work and it was written at different times. There was no intent to disprove the Bible in their hypothesis and discoveries. It wasn't put together in a book like the Bible (took 1500 years), but if it was, then it was as if Satan had wrote an antiGenesis as what Evolution (since the 1850s with uniformitarianism and then Darwin's bood) has become today.

These contradictions goes beyond that, too. It isn't just evolution, but moral values such as not killing a fetus vs. abortion and a woman's rights, homosexuality vs. man and woman marriage, and even how the world is going to end -- global fire vs. AGW (old) or huge asteroid hits the earth causing a catastrophic chain reaction (new). It turns out that everything that God stated in the Bible is contradicted by Satan. Maybe that's just his rebellious nature and he can't help himself.

Thus, when you add all the contradictions up, is this evidence for Satan? Does this convince you that Satan is causing it? I found out in my law enforcement part of career -- bad stuff usually does not happen by coincidence. For example, there is a killing around 2 am in the morning and the head of a nearby statue is broken off. Then a week later, another killing and another head of a nearby statue is neatly cut off.

Here are some things that are opposite off the top of my head.

GOD >>>>> SATAN
Said it first in the Bible ( Bible can't change) >>>>> Said it throughout the years (hypothesis and theories can change)
Universe >>>>> Multiverse
Creation ex nihilo (supernatural creation in 6 days) >>>>> Universe ex nihilo, i.e. big bang (defies laws of physics, infinite temp and density, all is set up in 20 mins); Before this, it was eternal universe
6,000 yrs old Earth and universe >>>>> 4.5 B yrs old Earth and 13.7 B yrs old universe
Created Adam and Eve >>>>> Humans evolved from monkeys
Created birds 5th day; dinosaurs 6th day >>>>> birds evolved from <strikeout>reptile</strikeout> dinosaurs
Clear explanation of how universe and Earth formed and science backs it up >>>>> Wild hypothesis of infinitely hot and dense unseen particle called singularity; Some event called big bang triggered a cosmic expansion in microseconds that formed the basis for our universe; not clear explanation of what happened
Life can only create life >>>>> Life forms through abiogenesis (based on spontaneous generation that was proven false by creation scientist Dr. Louis Pasteur)
Started with void >>>>> Started with infinitely hot and dense unseen quantum particle
God is timeless and spaceless >>>>> Quantum particles pop in and out of existence
God is light, i.e. EMS or light >>>>> Things happen through dark energy, dark matter
Universe is bounded and has a center >>>>> Universe is boundless and does not have a center
Earth is special >>>>> There is nothing special about the Earth
Heaven (upward direction) >>>>> Hell (downward direction)

Sorry for the poor formatting. It did not take my spaces/tabs.

Satan is a metaphor for an evil inclination. ... and Satan as YOU describe him is a late Christian invention.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
I provided my first example of God created dinosaurs on the sixth day as land animals. Today, evolutionists insist birds evolved from gigantic dinosaurs. This is not possible through microevolution or natural selection if birds and flying creatures were created on the 5th day and came before dinosaurs. Thus, are you saying that birds from dinosaurs is wrong? There are strange flying reptiles, but they're just part of natural selection of reptiles.

No, what I am specifically stating is that your view of what is or is not possible is too narrow, and that relying solely on the fallible word (fallible meaning written and interpreted by men) of an unchangeable/un-revisable document is hubris.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Normally, we do not discuss Satan. I think the only people who like to bring it up is The Satanic Temple.

I don't enjoy discussing it either, but this is a TRUTH I found. In the Bible, Satan has a rebellious personality and he relishes having the same power as God (not really), but he has great power.

He is considered the Father of Lies and he pulled the wool over Adam and Eve's eyes and took Adam's dominion of the world. He is called the "god of the world and the prince of the power of the air."

All of the contradictions to God's word and science cannot be coincidence. It also just does not apply to science, but moral values, and even how the world is supposed to end.

I do not know any other way than to think evolution opposes God. What part of it doesn't? For example, a key piece would be creation vs abiogenesis. You can't have one where we are created from the Earth in the ground and God's breath vs abiogenesis. We find abiogenesis does not happen scientifically.

There is not one example in the Jewish Scriptures where any angel, Satan included, ever opposes God's will.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Now, I didn't tell him this, but it dawned on me that whatever atheists/evolutionists believe contradicts what God stated in the first two books of Genesis.

Durrh!

So, my questions is -- Is this evidence for Satan?
On the contrary, it is evidence for Man's God-given capacity to understand the world he inhabits.

The Genesis story has been widely regarded by scholars as allegorical throughout most of history, until the c.19th century, when a few particularly silly sects decided to take it all literally.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I provided my first example of God created dinosaurs on the sixth day as land animals. Today, evolutionists insist birds evolved from gigantic dinosaurs. This is not possible through microevolution or natural selection if birds and flying creatures were created on the 5th day and came before dinosaurs. Thus, are you saying that birds from dinosaurs is wrong? There are strange flying reptiles, but they're just part of natural selection of reptiles.
What do you think Archaeopteryx is?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Durrh!


On the contrary, it is evidence for Man's God-given capacity to understand the world he inhabits.

The Genesis story has been widely regarded by scholars as allegorical throughout most of history, until the c.19th century, when a few particularly silly sects decided to take it all literally.

Yep.. That literalism came out of the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Nope, came out of 16th century Europe, during the Protestant Reformation. https://www.theopedia.com/protestant-reformation
Good link, but as I read it this does not specifically detail the origin of the vogue for biblical literalism.

My understanding, from a thread discussion a month or two ago with @Vouthon I think it was, is that the Reformation led to a new emphasis on rationalising Christianity, at the expense of the mystical element in it. It was this that indirectly led some Protestants to decide to take as axiomatic that every word of the bible must be true in a literal sense, so that then everything else could follow rationally from this axiom. I am not sure that this shift took place immediately. Sola Scriptura does not in itself imply biblical literalism, it seems to me.

What I have read is that sects such as the 7th Day Adventists took it up in the c.19th and from them, in c.20th N America, it spread widely. This is probably what @sooda has in mind.
 
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