Is This An Example Of Islam?

[Dirty Penguin]

I can't believe I missed a thread about Islam on RF. I feel so ashamed, but that is probably just my white privilege talking.

Trust me, I'd love to blame Islam for this court "ruling" but it is not "Islam's fault" per se, it is the fault of what are essentially some country hicks that have distorted Sharia Law in the most brutal way, in light of extreme interpretations of mainly hadiths... Yeah, strangely enough, in the Muslim world people have different opinions. Who knew?

It would be fair to turn your outrage towards the judge himself and perhaps the government he represents. It isn't fair to judge Islam by what this single judge decided.

Ohhh, and as far as news outlets and politicians are concerned. Most of them have a rather pathetic understanding of Islam and Sharia Law. So take their comments with several boxes of salt. Ignorance of Islam from non-Muslims is almost as big a factor here as the judges ignorance of the majority of opinions in the Muslim world.

Well said.....:clap

 

[Thana]

You spin your scriptures how you like and Muslims will spin theirs how they like. Both sides scriptures advocate many of the same things. Yes, in the OT "God" did in fact command those to kill the children of the opposing side, to take the young girls and...well you get the point.

Sure we could but what fun would that be considering the obvious parallels...?...

I don't spin anything, If you bothered to research the other side of the argument you would find that not everything is as black and white as you wish it to be.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I don't spin anything...

Yeah..ok

If you bothered to research the other side of the argument you would find that not everything is as black and white as you wish it to be.

This would assume you actually knew anything about me. I have no dog in this fight as I find them both to be equally ridiculous at times...but so you know...I grew up in a Christian and Muslim family structure and know your bible and their quran very well. I understand many of the cultural differences as well as the similarities. So I very well understand the issues aren't so black and white as you assert....

 

[Thana]

This would assume you actually knew anything about me. I have no dog in this fight as I find them both to be equally ridiculous at times...but so you know...I grew up in a Christian and Muslim family structure and know your bible and their quran very well. I understand many of the cultural differences as well as the similarities. So I very well understand the issues aren't so black and white as you assert....

And yet you only presented one side of the argument, With the intention to say 'Look how bad this is'

I don't need to know you to know what you said

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And yet you only presented one side of the argument, With the intention to say 'Look how bad this is'

I don't need to know you to know what you said

I did no such thing.....

The side against Islamic ideology had already been presented. By you I believe with the Surahs and Ayat. I presented the other side with the verse, one of many, from your scripture advocating similar or same behavior by its followers and commandments from "God"....

 

[beenie]

I can't believe I missed a thread about Islam on RF. I feel so ashamed, but that is probably just my white privilege talking.

You're slacking, my friend... keep up.

Trust me, I'd love to blame Islam for this court "ruling" but it is not "Islam's fault" per se, it is the fault of what are essentially some country hicks that have distorted Sharia Law in the most brutal way, in light of extreme interpretations of mainly hadiths... Yeah, strangely enough, in the Muslim world people have different opinions. Who knew?

You said in one paragraph what took me multiple posts to explain. Nice.

It would be fair to turn your outrage towards the judge himself and perhaps the government he represents. It isn't fair to judge Islam by what this single judge decided.

Ohhh, and as far as news outlets and politicians are concerned. Most of them have a rather pathetic understanding of Islam and Sharia Law. So take their comments with several boxes of salt. Ignorance of Islam from non-Muslims is almost as big a factor here as the judges ignorance of the majority of opinions in the Muslim world.

:yes:

Yeah..ok

This would assume you actually knew anything about me. I have no dog in this fight as I find them both to be equally ridiculous at times...but so you know...I grew up in a Christian and Muslim family structure and know your bible and their quran very well. I understand many of the cultural differences as well as the similarities. So I very well understand the issues aren't so black and white as you assert....

I was brought up with the same family dynamic. Interesting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't spin anything, If you bothered to research the other side of the argument you would find that not everything is as black and white as you wish it to be.

Provisional Irish Republican Army campaign 1969
That is a terrorist organization that functioned until '97, and they were responsible for 2,000 deaths. This group is Catholic. And then there are groups like the Ku Klux Klan who are Protestant terrorists. The laws and punishments of the Bible are also brutal, harsh and blood thirsty. Yes, there are a relative handful of terrorist who claim to be Muslim, and a sizable amount that thinks Europe should be under Sharia law. Guess what? A helluva lot of Christians think America is morally corrupt and think that only Conservative Biblical law can save it.
It's quite simply absurd to think Islam, or Muslims, as a whole are a problem when reality simply does not support that claim. How many attacks really happen in the Western world, despite Islam being the world's fastest growing religion? If Islam is so violent and nasty, why is it that I see so much more hatred coming from these people who tell me to be afraid of Muslims than I ever see coming from Muslims? If Muslims are so scary, then why do I find it generally easy to get along with them?
I think if you looked at reality, and not the ****-stained Islamophic lens of right-leaning media you will find your big bad wolf is nothing more than a shadow.

 

[Thana]

Provisional Irish Republican Army campaign 1969
That is a terrorist organization that functioned until '97, and they were responsible for 2,000 deaths. This group is Catholic. And then there are groups like the Ku Klux Klan who are Protestant terrorists. The laws and punishments of the Bible are also brutal, harsh and blood thirsty. Yes, there are a relative handful of terrorist who claim to be Muslim, and a sizable amount that thinks Europe should be under Sharia law. Guess what? A helluva lot of Christians think America is morally corrupt and think that only Conservative Biblical law can save it.
It's quite simply absurd to think Islam, or Muslims, as a whole are a problem when reality simply does not support that claim. How many attacks really happen in the Western world, despite Islam being the world's fastest growing religion? If Islam is so violent and nasty, why is it that I see so much more hatred coming from these people who tell me to be afraid of Muslims than I ever see coming from Muslims? If Muslims are so scary, then why do I find it generally easy to get along with them?
I think if you looked at reality, and not the ****-stained Islamophic lens of right-leaning media you will find your big bad wolf is nothing more than a shadow.

Nothing you just said has any relevancy to anything I've posted.
I don't know why you picked my post to preach.

 

[beenie]

I think if you looked at reality, and not the ****-stained Islamophic lens of right-leaning media you will find your big bad wolf is nothing more than a shadow.
[/COLOR]

I like what you did there... clever. (bolding mine... with your username)

Anyway, we cannot deny that there are verses and Hadith that leave the door cracked for people to misinterpret and twist to meet their sinister needs and commit horrible acts such as those in the OP's links and terrorism. Certainly if you read particular verses and leave out the context, time, and circumstance in which they were written, one can make them to mean anything they want. It's easy to do that for both Muslims who want to commit such atrocities and for non-Muslims to twist Islam into something so they can attack it and its people.

I still stand by my assertion that if Islam wants to survive, it must reform, and it must be reformed by Muslims themselves. From a spiritual sense, the worship of one God is not a foreign one--neither is charity, caring for humanity, fasting, and a few other acts of worship. Truly the issues stem mostly with the Hadith, which we all know were compiled years after Muhammad's death... I could go on and on about this, but reform is key for Islam to have a future.

Muslims who object to the idea are often fearful of the repercussions of "rewriting" a religion; I don't think that is necessary, rather adapting and interpreting it in a more modern atmosphere. IMO that would clear up many of the misunderstandings and confusion that surrounds Islam today.

I'm an idealist, though, but I hope to find more people who also believe in some version of reform.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm an idealist, though, but I hope to find more people who also believe in some version of reform.

And I think that "reform" will come, quickly followed by attacks by ultra orthodox Muslims who don't feel you are Islamic enough.

 

[beenie]

And I think that "reform" will come, quickly followed by attacks by ultra orthodox Muslims who don't feel you are Islamic enough.

Sadly, I agree with you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I like what you did there... clever. (bolding mine... with your username)
Anyway, we cannot deny that there are verses and Hadith that leave the door cracked for people to misinterpret and twist to meet their sinister needs and commit horrible acts such as those in the OP's links and terrorism. Certainly if you read particular verses and leave out the context, time, and circumstance in which they were written, one can make them to mean anything they want. It's easy to do that for both Muslims who want to commit such atrocities and for non-Muslims to twist Islam into something so they can attack it and its people.

And while that is true, there seems to be a problem with ignoring the fact Christians do the exact same thing, and much like Muslim terrorists, Christian terrorists represent a small fringe group. So many Americans fear Sharia law in America, yet laws strongly favoring Christian morality and Biblical law are made into legislation. Really the only difference I see is one group conveniently ignores and forgets their bad apples, or just dismisses them as not being Christian, while the overwhelming on Muslims in America, who are innocent, are reminded every day that there bad group exists.

 

[kashmir]

Just watched the news, the US Gov, is trying to get her released under the ruling of clemency by Western human rights activists.
She is in fact convicted of nothing more than leaving the muslim faith and converting to Christianity and refusing to convert back.

Those here that are saying it is treason and that she has attacked anyone, is a bogus lie.
There is not one shred of proof that she did anything other than leave the muslim faith.
This is what a peaceful religion does?

The woman, Mariam Yahia Ibrahim Ishag, brought her punishment of death upon herself, said Judge Abbas Mohammed Al-Khalifa: "We gave you three days to recant but you insist on not returning to Islam."

The protesters there are holding signs with things like "Religious Freedom"

Futhermore

Sudan’s information minister, Ahmed Bilal Osman, defended the death sentence for leaving Islam. "It's not only Sudan. In Saudi Arabia, in all the Muslim countries,” he sayd, “It is not allowed at all for a Muslim to change his religion."

Not sure if it has been posted, but here is the link to the petition to free her.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/government-of-sudan-don-t-execute-8-months-pregnant-mariam-yehya-ibrahim-for-being-christian-savemariam

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And while that is true, there seems to be a problem with ignoring the fact Christians do the exact same thing, and much like Muslim terrorists, Christian terrorists represent a small fringe group. So many Americans fear Sharia law in America, yet laws strongly favoring Christian morality and Biblical law are made into legislation. Really the only difference I see is one group conveniently ignores and forgets their bad apples, or just dismisses them as not being Christian, while the overwhelming on Muslims in America, who are innocent, are reminded every day that there bad group exists.

This I completely agree with....:yes:

Anti-Sharia Bill Passed In North Carolina Without Governor Pat McCrory's Signature

Supporters hailed the bill as an important safeguard that protects the American legal system from foreign laws that are incompatible with the U.S. Constitution........

Proposal would allow state religion in North Carolina :: WRAL.com

A resolution filed by Republican lawmakers would allow North Carolina to declare an official religion......
​

I believe the bill proposal for statewide religion in NC has been defeated. I think the anti-sharia law lives on though......

 

[beenie]

Just watched the news, the US Gov, is trying to get her released under the ruling of clemency by Western human rights activists.

Good, I hope they succeed and free her so she can be with her husband.

She is in fact convicted of nothing more than leaving the muslim faith and converting to Christianity and refusing to convert back.

Then they are misusing/misinterpreting the Shariah Law regarding apostasy VERSUS treason.

Those here that are saying it is treason and that she has attacked anyone, is a bogus lie.

NO ONE HERE SAID she committed treason. A few of us have said that the punishment she is receiving is for those who have committed treason, which leads back to what I said above:

Then they are misusing/misinterpreting the Shariah Law regarding apostast VERSUS treason.

There is not one shred of proof that she did anything other than leave the muslim faith.

You are correct, which is why EVERY Muslim in this thread has said she is being falsely punished and should be set free.

This is what a peaceful religion does?

Nope, this is what maniacal idiots who misuse some non-existant law does.

The protesters there are holding signs with things like "Religious Freedom"

Not sure what you point is about the protesters...

Futhermore

Not sure if it has been posted, but here is the link to the petition to free her.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/government-of-sudan-don-t-execute-8-months-pregnant-mariam-yehya-ibrahim-for-being-christian-savemariam

I signed it many days ago, all of my Muslim friends signed it, my Muslim husband signed it. Next? Peace, and have a nice day.

 

[kashmir]

NO ONE HERE SAID she committed treason. A few of us have said that the punishment she is receiving is for those who have committed treason, which leads back to what I said above:

No, people here have said that she committed treason and attacked islam.
which is why I posted this.
I am not going unblock them to find the post, at this point it is irrelevant to me, I have showing that the media is not lying.
Some here and in other threads are claiming that the media is lying in every instance such as this one.

Just because a few support that she should be set free isn't really the point.
The point is what is going on in the real world, which is quite disturbing.

My main point is this;
When is the world going to stop letting man make religious doctrine allow them to commit horrors on innocent people?
Specially women?
Never, probably.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This I completely agree with....:yes:

Anti-Sharia Bill Passed In North Carolina Without Governor Pat McCrory's Signature

Proposal would allow state religion in North Carolina :: WRAL.com
I believe the bill proposal for statewide religion in NC has been defeated. I think the anti-sharia law lives on though......

Too bad it doesn't take a psychic to know that people like Governor McCrory has never actually read the Quran, and those favoring this bill obviously have not the first or slightest idea of what Sharia law really is and who is supposed to be following it (*hint* non-Muslims, according the Quran, are exempt from Sharia law).
As for the state religion, I don't see how it could pass and survive judiciary review. The first and tenth (or maybe ninth, I can't exactly recall right now) pretty much make sure those laws can never happen without something terrible happening first.

 

[beenie]

No, people here have said that she committed treason and attacked islam.
which is why I posted this.
I am not going unblock them to find the post, at this point it is irrelevant to me, I have showing that the media is not lying.
Some here and in other threads are claiming that the media is lying in every instance such as this one.

Please quote the person who said she committed treason. I bet you can't find one. You won't look because there are ZERO posts saying this woman committed treason.

Just because a few support that she should be set free isn't really the point.
The point is what is going on in the real world, which is quite disturbing.

A few? Everyone who has posted in this thread supports she should be set free. Of course it's disturbing or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

My main point is this;
When is the world going to stop letting man make religious doctrine allow them to commit horrors on innocent people?
Specially women?
Never, probably.

Well that is the million dollar question, isn't it?

 

[kashmir]

Please quote the person who said she committed treason. I bet you can't find one. You won't look because there are ZERO posts saying this woman committed treason.

Like I said, I put them on ignore, could give a hoot less about it now.
It is not worth it to me to unblock those that said it, just to show it to you.
No offense
If you wish to find it, its right where I was posting last, a few pages back.

Well that is the million dollar question, isn't it?

not even sure what that means.
It wont end though, all the money in the world wont stop it.
People have been having religious wars since the beginning of man.

Even on the web, people cant come to agreements and blame everyone else.
They attacked us so we attacked back, they murdered innocents, so did the other people, they still have slaves, those people have more than us.
They starve their people, so did the other people,.....
The quran says this, the bible says that, but this is more evil, that is more evil too...it never ends....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Too bad it doesn't take a psychic to know that people like Governor McCrory has never actually read the Quran, and those favoring this bill obviously have not the first or slightest idea of what Sharia law really is and who is supposed to be following it (*hint* non-Muslims, according the Quran, are exempt from Sharia law).

I agree. When they proposed it I had to do a double take. Then I realized that nothing suprises me that much anymore concerning NC legislators.

As for the state religion, I don't see how it could pass and survive judiciary review. The first and tenth (or maybe ninth, I can't exactly recall right now) pretty much make sure those laws can never happen without something terrible happening first.

Yeah, I believe it got struck down.