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Is there proof of a monotheistic God?

exchemist

Veteran Member
Yeah, I spotted that at first glance. Of course he
made it up.

AND, even if it were a "law", so what? "Laws" are
a human construct. and are always provisional.
The cannot be proven to be true!!!

(not said for your benefit)
That is a rather good point, actually.

Even there were such a "law" in science, that would not be proof of anything as all theories in science are provisional and subject to being overthrown by new observations.

It looks to me as if this person uses the word "proof" merely rhetorically, paying little attention to what it actually means. :rolleyes:
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I will confess when I am depressed, I sometimes think about doubting God, but I found this very helpful. This video goes over genetic science, the science of outer space, and more. Please tell me if you are a monotheist, another type of theist, deist, agnostic, or secular. I welcome a peaceful debate. Stay awesome.
Is there any conclusive proof of God? Question: "Is there any conclusive proof of God?"
Answer: The answer to this question depends greatly on what is meant by “conclusive” proof of God. Can we reach out and touch God or see Him in the same way that we touch and see people? No. But there are countless ways one can know assuredly that God does exist, that He is real, and He is who He says He is. We will look briefly at three ways of proving His existence using both science and the Bible.
1. Proof of God: The Law of Cause and Effect. This law of science states that every cause has its effect and every effect has its cause. This law is the basis of all science. As such, this law bears a relationship to the origin of the heavens and the earth. In fact, scientists agree that the universe has not existed forever, that it had a beginning at some point in time.
The theory of relativity, which is almost universally accepted among scientists, has certain implications for this Law of Cause and Effect. One is that the universe—defined as time, space, matter, and physical energy—had a beginning, that it is not eternal. And it is through Einstein’s equations that scientists can trace the development of the universe back to its very origin, back to what is called the “singularity event” when it actually came into being. Science has proven that the universe really did have a beginning. This means that if the universe had a starting point in history, then it obviously began to exist, and it must have a cause for its existence.

Therefore, if the universe needs a cause for its coming into being, then that cause must be beyond the universe—which is time, space, matter, and physical energy. That cause must be something similar to what Christians call “God.” Even Richard Dawkins, probably the most prominent proponent for atheism in our time, admitted in a TIME magazine article that “there could be something incredibly grand and incomprehensible and beyond our present understanding.” Yes, and that is God!
We can best summarize this cosmological evidence with the following statements:
(1) Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence.
(2) The universe began to exist.
(3) Therefore, the universe must have a cause for its existence.
(4) The attributes of the cause of the universe (being timeless, existing outside of space, and so on) are the attributes of God.
(5) Therefore, the cause of the universe must be God (Genesis 1:1).
2. Proof of God: The Law of Teleology. Teleology is the study of design or purpose in natural phenomena. This law of science essentially means that when an object reflects a purpose, goal, or design, it must have had a designer. Simply put, things do not design themselves. This holds true for the things in the universe, which proves that it had to have a Designer.
For example, the earth in orbiting the sun departs from a straight line by only one-ninth of an inch every 18 miles—a very straight line in human terms. If the orbit changed by one-tenth of an inch every 18 miles, it would be vastly larger, and we would all freeze to death. If it changed by one-eighth of an inch, we would be incinerated. The sun is burning at approximately 20 million degrees Celsius at its interior. If the earth was moved 10% farther away, we would soon freeze to death. If it were moved 10% closer, we would be reduced to ashes. Are we to believe that such precision “just happened”? Think about it: the sun is poised at 93 million miles from Earth, which happens to be just right. Did this happen by chance or by design? It’s no small wonder that the psalmist alludes to God as the grand designer: “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. . . . [The sun] rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other” (Psalm 19:1, 6).
3. Proof of God: The Laws of Probability and Fulfilled Prophecy. There are 1,093 prophecies in the Bible that refer to Jesus and His Church, and each one of those prophecies was fulfilled! The Old Testament contains 48 prophecies that pertain to the crucifixion of Jesus. When applying the laws of probability to calculate the likelihood of several events taking place at or near the same time, all probabilities have to be multiplied together. For example, if the probability of a single event occurring randomly is 1 chance in 5 and the probability of a separate event occurring is 1 chance in 10, then the probability that both events will occur together or in sequence is 1 in 5 multiplied by 1 in 10, which yields 1 in 50.
In considering the fact that several different prophets who lived in separate communities over a span of a 1,000 years made predictions of Christ 500 years before His birth, the odds against these prophecies coming true are simply beyond our wildest comprehension. For example, the chances of one man (Jesus) fulfilling just 8 of the prophecies attributed to Him are one in 10 to the 17th power (that’s a number 1 with 17 zeroes).
Consider this: imagine covering the entire state of Texas with silver dollars to a level of two feet deep. The number of silver dollars needed to cover the whole state would be 10 to the 17th power. Mark one silver dollar with an “X” and drop it from an airplane. Then thoroughly stir all the silver dollars all over the state. Then blindfold a man and tell him he can travel wherever he wishes in the state of Texas. Then somewhere along the way, he is to stop and reach down into the two feet of silver dollars and pull up the one silver dollar that has been marked with the “X.” What are the chances of his doing this? The same chance the prophets had of eight of their prophecies being fulfilled in any one man in the future (based on the work of Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman in Science Speaks: Scientific Proof of the Accuracy of Prophecy and the Bible [Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1963, pg. 101-109].)
The Bible with all its fulfilled prophecies proves the existence of God. Through the law of probability and the mathematical odds of prophecy being fulfilled, we can know assuredly that there was a divine Designer and Author of the Bible. The same One who brought the universe into existence. “You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously” (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).
Finally, God, the Creator of the universe and Author of our salvation tells us, “Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).


can you prove that you love me? the same love that two friends have for self and other as self?


friendship is two bodies being of one mind. two beasts of burden cultivating a garden together with a crossbar ard.




John 15:9-John 15:17 NIV “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
That is a rather good point, actually.

Even there were such a "law" in science, that would not be proof of anything as all theories in science are provisional and subject to being overthrown by new observations.

It looks to me as if this person uses the word "proof" merely rhetorically, paying little attention to what it actually means. :rolleyes:

He might have also tried the "law of biogenesis"
thing, that Pasteur supposedly proved.

Of course, such vids are for preachin' to the choir,
or to the unsophisticated.

Showing them to the educated has very much the
opposite to what is the intended effect.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
He might have also tried the "law of biogenesis"
thing, that Pasteur supposedly proved.

Of course, such vids are for preachin' to the choir,
or to the unsophisticated.

Showing them to the educated has very much the
opposite to what is the intended effect.
Oh don't start on those old chestnuts, please! Next, you'll be dragging in my personal bête noire, the "thermodynamic argument". :mad:

But yes, these videos are normally full of lies and misrepresentations, being designed to bolster the faith of people who know no better rather than winning new converts. This fellow , who I had never heard of, though sayak83 has, seems to be just another of these charlatans.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
No one is forcing you to watch it, and another admin said I can post it here. :)
This is a good example of something that can be done, but won't be very advisable.

It is not excessive to ask for a brief summary of the subject matter of a one-hour video that is described as a convincing argument.

Providing such a summary is just common courtesy, and part of the expected protocol when one wants to be listened to.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I will confess when I am depressed, I sometimes think about doubting God, but I found this very helpful. This video goes over genetic science, the science of outer space, and more. Please tell me if you are a monotheist, another type of theist, deist, agnostic, or secular. I welcome a peaceful debate. Stay awesome.
Is there any conclusive proof of God? Question: "Is there any conclusive proof of God?"
Answer: The answer to this question depends greatly on what is meant by “conclusive” proof of God. Can we reach out and touch God or see Him in the same way that we touch and see people? No. But there are countless ways one can know assuredly that God does exist, that He is real, and He is who He says He is. We will look briefly at three ways of proving His existence using both science and the Bible.
1. Proof of God: The Law of Cause and Effect. This law of science states that every cause has its effect and every effect has its cause. This law is the basis of all science. As such, this law bears a relationship to the origin of the heavens and the earth. In fact, scientists agree that the universe has not existed forever, that it had a beginning at some point in time.
The theory of relativity, which is almost universally accepted among scientists, has certain implications for this Law of Cause and Effect. One is that the universe—defined as time, space, matter, and physical energy—had a beginning, that it is not eternal. And it is through Einstein’s equations that scientists can trace the development of the universe back to its very origin, back to what is called the “singularity event” when it actually came into being. Science has proven that the universe really did have a beginning. This means that if the universe had a starting point in history, then it obviously began to exist, and it must have a cause for its existence.

Therefore, if the universe needs a cause for its coming into being, then that cause must be beyond the universe—which is time, space, matter, and physical energy. That cause must be something similar to what Christians call “God.” Even Richard Dawkins, probably the most prominent proponent for atheism in our time, admitted in a TIME magazine article that “there could be something incredibly grand and incomprehensible and beyond our present understanding.” Yes, and that is God!
We can best summarize this cosmological evidence with the following statements:
(1) Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence.
(2) The universe began to exist.
(3) Therefore, the universe must have a cause for its existence.
(4) The attributes of the cause of the universe (being timeless, existing outside of space, and so on) are the attributes of God.
(5) Therefore, the cause of the universe must be God (Genesis 1:1).
2. Proof of God: The Law of Teleology. Teleology is the study of design or purpose in natural phenomena. This law of science essentially means that when an object reflects a purpose, goal, or design, it must have had a designer. Simply put, things do not design themselves. This holds true for the things in the universe, which proves that it had to have a Designer.
For example, the earth in orbiting the sun departs from a straight line by only one-ninth of an inch every 18 miles—a very straight line in human terms. If the orbit changed by one-tenth of an inch every 18 miles, it would be vastly larger, and we would all freeze to death. If it changed by one-eighth of an inch, we would be incinerated. The sun is burning at approximately 20 million degrees Celsius at its interior. If the earth was moved 10% farther away, we would soon freeze to death. If it were moved 10% closer, we would be reduced to ashes. Are we to believe that such precision “just happened”? Think about it: the sun is poised at 93 million miles from Earth, which happens to be just right. Did this happen by chance or by design? It’s no small wonder that the psalmist alludes to God as the grand designer: “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. . . . [The sun] rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other” (Psalm 19:1, 6).
3. Proof of God: The Laws of Probability and Fulfilled Prophecy. There are 1,093 prophecies in the Bible that refer to Jesus and His Church, and each one of those prophecies was fulfilled! The Old Testament contains 48 prophecies that pertain to the crucifixion of Jesus. When applying the laws of probability to calculate the likelihood of several events taking place at or near the same time, all probabilities have to be multiplied together. For example, if the probability of a single event occurring randomly is 1 chance in 5 and the probability of a separate event occurring is 1 chance in 10, then the probability that both events will occur together or in sequence is 1 in 5 multiplied by 1 in 10, which yields 1 in 50.
In considering the fact that several different prophets who lived in separate communities over a span of a 1,000 years made predictions of Christ 500 years before His birth, the odds against these prophecies coming true are simply beyond our wildest comprehension. For example, the chances of one man (Jesus) fulfilling just 8 of the prophecies attributed to Him are one in 10 to the 17th power (that’s a number 1 with 17 zeroes).
Consider this: imagine covering the entire state of Texas with silver dollars to a level of two feet deep. The number of silver dollars needed to cover the whole state would be 10 to the 17th power. Mark one silver dollar with an “X” and drop it from an airplane. Then thoroughly stir all the silver dollars all over the state. Then blindfold a man and tell him he can travel wherever he wishes in the state of Texas. Then somewhere along the way, he is to stop and reach down into the two feet of silver dollars and pull up the one silver dollar that has been marked with the “X.” What are the chances of his doing this? The same chance the prophets had of eight of their prophecies being fulfilled in any one man in the future (based on the work of Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman in Science Speaks: Scientific Proof of the Accuracy of Prophecy and the Bible [Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1963, pg. 101-109].)
The Bible with all its fulfilled prophecies proves the existence of God. Through the law of probability and the mathematical odds of prophecy being fulfilled, we can know assuredly that there was a divine Designer and Author of the Bible. The same One who brought the universe into existence. “You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously” (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).
Finally, God, the Creator of the universe and Author of our salvation tells us, “Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).


There is no proof for any god, if there were proof then there would be no need for faith.

1
(1) Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence. Is not so, you are assuming that causality existed before the universe. The 2nd law of thermodynamics did not begin to resolve until after the bb.
It follows that 3, 4 and 5 must be erroneous given that 1 is incorrect.


2 Teleology is not a law but a idea for morality, morality is a contentious idea in science that be analysed using the scientific method

3 conformation bias based on assumption, not evidence.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
I didn't watch the video since (1) I don't watch videos (I can read) and (2) I don't pay attention to the writings of journalists.

As far as proof of creation is concerned, as ever it depends on what you mean by proof. Consider the difference between proving a mathematical theorem (100% certainty) and proving to a court that you've been libeled (on the balance of probabilities). Obviously there cannot be 100% certainty in this case. But that doesn't mean that one cannot make a case on the balance of probabilities, or even the sort of proof required in a criminal trial: beyond reasonable doubt.

Consider the two common arguments: that from causation and that from design. All of us believe that things don't just happen for no reason at all, which surely give the argument from causation a 50/50 chance of being effective at the least. The argument from design is weaker, although it's impressed both philosophers and scientists: let's say we rate it unconvincing and give it odds of 3 to 2 against. Then, since the two arguments uses different premises, the probability of their joint conclusion being true is 0.5 + 0.25 - 0.5 × 0.25 = 0.625. In other words, the odds are are 5 to 3 in favour of creation.

But note that this is an argument for creation, not for a creator — the cosmos could have been produced by a team — and certainly not for a creator who can be equated to the God of monotheism. Also, proving that something is more likely than not to exist is not the same as proving that it does: there might be a blue rose, but I shall withhold my belief in it until some-one gives me one.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
3. Proof of God: The Laws of Probability and Fulfilled Prophecy. There are 1,093 prophecies in the Bible that refer to Jesus and His Church, and each one of those prophecies was fulfilled!
Which one do you think is the best example... the best-supported, most compelling prophecy?

And just so you know up front, here are the criteria I'm going to be using:

For a statement to be Biblical foreknowledge, it must fit all of the five following criteria:

  1. It must be accurate. A statement cannotbe Biblical foreknowledge if it is not accurate, because knowledge (and thus foreknowledge) excludes inaccurate statements. TLDR: It's true.
  2. It must be in the Bible. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not in the Bible, because Biblical by definition foreknowledge can only come from the Bible itself, rather than modern reinterpretations of the text. TLDR: It's in plain words in the Bible.
  3. It must be precise and unambiguous. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if meaningless philosophical musings or multiple possible ideas could fulfill the foreknowledge, because ambiguityprevents one from knowing whether the foreknowledge was intentional rather than accidental. TLDR: Vague "predictions" don't count.
  4. It must be improbable. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of a pure guess, because foreknowledge requires a person to actually know something true, while a correct guess doesn't mean that the guesser knows anything. This also excludes contemporary beliefs that happened be true but were believed to be true without solid evidence. TLDR: Lucky guesses don't count.
  5. It must have been unknown. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of an educated guess based off contemporary knowledge, because foreknowledge requires a person to know a statement when it would have been impossible, outside of supernatural power, for that person to know it. TLDR: Ideas of the time don't count.
Biblical prophecies - RationalWiki

And I'll add a 6th criteria (related to 5, but I think distinct):

6. It cannot have been fulfilled as a deliberate act to fulfill the prophecy. For instance, there's a passage in the Gospels where Jesus says (paraphrased): "go get me a donkey and a colt so that I can fulfill the prophecy that says the Messiah will enter the city on a donkey and a colt." I would not consider this to be a sign of anything remarkable.

Do you have any fulfilled prophecies that pass these tests?
 

YeshuaRedeemed

Revelation 3:10
There is no proof for any god, if there were proof then there would be no need for faith.

1
(1) Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence. Is not so, you are assuming that causality existed before the universe. The 2nd law of thermodynamics did not begin to resolve until after the bb.
It follows that 3, 4 and 5 must be erroneous given that 1 is incorrect.


2 Teleology is not a law but a idea for morality, morality is a contentious idea in science that be analysed using the scientific method

3 conformation bias based on assumption, not evidence.
Thank you for replying. Did you reveiw the evidence I provided? I won't tell you which God to believe in on this post, but have you heard of the Kalaam Colsmological argument? Even if I were not a Christian, I would still be a monotheist.
 

YeshuaRedeemed

Revelation 3:10
This is a good example of something that can be done, but won't be very advisable.

It is not excessive to ask for a brief summary of the subject matter of a one-hour video that is described as a convincing argument.

Providing such a summary is just common courtesy, and part of the expected protocol when one wants to be listened to.
I added an article.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Thank you for replying. Did you reveiw the evidence I provided? I won't tell you which God to believe in on this post, but have you heard of the Kalaam Colsmological argument? Even if I were not a Christian, I would still be a monotheist.

When did you hear of it? It is kind of a moldy oldie.

We rather think you've failed to review the "evidence'
else you'd not have posted such foolishness.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Thank you for replying. Did you reveiw the evidence I provided? I won't tell you which God to believe in on this post, but have you heard of the Kalaam Colsmological argument? Even if I were not a Christian, I would still be a monotheist.
I've heard of it. Do you think Kalaam proves a god?

Here's the argument:

  1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause;
  2. The universe began to exist;
    Therefore:
  3. The universe has a cause.
Kalam cosmological argument - Wikipedia

Issues with the argument aside, it doesn't even mention a god.
 

YeshuaRedeemed

Revelation 3:10
Well, Israel was definitely formed, so I'll give you #1. How about the rest of the criteria? What's the prophecy that's actually in the Bible?
Have any aspects of end times prophecy been fulfilled?
Question: "Have any aspects of end times prophecy been fulfilled?"
Answer: Revelation 4:1 introduces a section of Scripture that details “things which must be hereafter.” What follows are prophecies of the “end times.” We have not yet reached the tribulation, the revelation of the Antichrist, or other “end-time” events. What we do see is a “preparation” for those events.
Jesus said that the last days would be preceded by several things: many false Christs would come, deceiving many; we would “hear of wars and rumors of wars”; and there would be an increase in “famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diverse places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (Matthew 24:5-8). Today’s news is full of false religions, warfare, and natural disasters. We know that events of the tribulation period will include all that Jesus predicted (Revelation 6:1-8); current events seem to be a build-up for greater trouble ahead.
Paul warned that the last days would bring a marked increase in false teaching. “In later times, some will abandon the faith, and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). The last days are described as “perilous times” because of the increasingly evil character of man and because of people who actively “oppose the truth” (2 Timothy 3:1-9; also see 2 Thessalonians 2:3). The list of things people will be in the last days—lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power—(2 Timothy 3:1-2) seems to fit our modern age exactly.
Can there be any doubt that the prophecies concerning apostasy are being fulfilled? Our 21st-century world has embraced moral relativism, a philosophy which is tainting even the church. For example, many denominations are having a hard time defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, and many religious leaders today are openly supporting homosexuality. The Bible has become subordinate to the modern church’s quest for a more appealing “truth.” These are indeed “perilous times” spiritually.
The formation of the European Union—and the fact that we have a reunified Germany—is very interesting in light of biblical prophecy. The “ten toes” of Daniel 2:42 and the ten-horned beasts of Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:1 are references to a “revived” Roman Empire which will hold power before Christ returns. Although the precise political structure has yet to be formed, the pieces can be seen as falling into place.
In 1948, Israel was recognized as a sovereign state, and this, too, has ramifications for the student of Scripture. God promised Abram that his posterity would have Canaan as “an everlasting possession” (Genesis 17:8), and Ezekiel prophesied a physical and spiritual resuscitation of Israel (Ezekiel 37). Having Israel as a nation in its own land is important in light of end-time prophecy, because of Israel’s prominence in eschatology (Daniel 10:14; 11:41; Revelation 11:8).
While there is no biblical proof that the things mentioned above are prophecy fulfilled, we can see how many of these events are similar to what the Bible describes. In any case, we are to be watching for prophecy fulfilled because Jesus told us that the day of the Lord—His return for His own—would come like a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10), unexpected and unannounced. “Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36).
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I don't remember were exactly, but I tend to agree with the argument.

"were"?

But yes, of course you agree with it.
You posted it; and it says what you
want to hear.

You probably agree also with the
"laws" that do not even exist.

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun

  1. the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.
 
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