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Featured Is there evil in Heaven? If so can Heaven really be perfect?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hella Jingles, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    The UB is made up? Cool. 1955 made up stuff is thousands of years better than 3,000 years ago made up stuff.

    Channeling is not a credible source? But a talking burning bush is?

    Anyone can claim they are in a trance receiving special information? But a burning bush, now that's proof.

    Indeed, I should know information about my own religion if I'm going to promote it? Which Tanakh books were written by who?

    You're not Abrahamic? But the Tanakh is and that is your source for credible information. I'm sure you can find a golden calf statue online somewhere to replace the one you lost so you can become a Tanakhist or whatever.

    So, when is the next stoning to death going to happen? Or, is that not from God anymore? How exactly does that work that Jews or you Tanakhists can over rule God's rules?
     
  2. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    There is actually no name Lucifer in that text. It is about a King of Babylon as it says. And it says THE MAN.

    The morning star term is being used just as we use such today, when we talk about a fallen TV personality, - for instance. He made a rise to the top becoming a "bright rising star," then he did something stupid - and took a great fall from grace.

    Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor failed! the golden city failed!

    Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

    Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven (a height), O Bright rising star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

    *
     
  3. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    My-my! Your rant is becoming ridiculous. And you continue to bring up a religion I don't belong to.

    Neither channeling, or burning bushes stories, are reliable.

    And again - OBVIOUSLY you should know about the religion you are pushing.

    Again - I don't belong to ANY of the Abrahamic religions.

    Tanakh is my source for information? Obviously you haven't read my comments saying such ARE NOT the word of any God, - but are the works of men. Just like your religion.

    What God's rules am I over-ruling? I don't believe in the Abrahamic God, - or your God.

    *
     
  4. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    My rant is ridiculous? And yours that supports old Jewish books written by humans who thought God, the Creator of the universe, was jealous of them, is somehow not? Oh, and Adam and Eve's children had to commit incest to populate the earth. And God tortures people and murders them. And God wants you to stone to death someone as penalty for fixing a leaking roof on the sabbath. Riiiiiiight.

    Neither channeling or burning bushes is reliable? So, you're here to just criticize other belief's because they are not as old as the Tanakh?

    I should know about the religion I am pushing? No one knows everything about anything, therefore, to you, no one can be reliable source of information for any subject.

    You don't belong to any Abrahamic religion? Actions speak louder than words.

    Which of God's rules are you over ruling? None, you don't have that power. Why did you think you did?

    You Tanakhists, like the Jews, stopped following the ten commandments so you either admit that they were never God's rules in the first place or you decided that you had to power to dismiss them.
     
  5. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    You are just making yourself look more and more illogical.

    You keep going to Abrahamic books - as if I believe in them. I DON'T! So stop that crap.

    How exactly is saying both are unreliable, - somehow taking one side over the other?

    You are pushing a religion supposedly received from planetary beings through a trance state. One would think - LOGIC - would have you looking into where your religion came from, when it talks about planetary princes, and the like, while using Abrahamic names. Common sense!

    LOL! Obviously you missed my recent post saying the religious books of the Abrahamic religions are from MAN, - not any god, as shown by what they allow MEN to do, - rape, murder, own slaves and rape, breed, and hold them forever. Kill those whom are different, etc. Obviously from MEN. Does that sound like I belong to the religions of Abraham to you? :rolleyes:

    Where is this illogical crap coming from. I don't believe in your gods.

    This is getting old. And crazier by the minute. Obviously if I don't believe in the religions of Abraham, - I am not a follower of Tanakh.

    *
     
  6. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    I'm making myself look more and more illogical? Logic does not mean truth. Logic is having your stated premise agree with your stated conclusion, whatever that stated premise is. You tried to use a word that was way above your education level.

    I keep going to Abrahamic books, as if you believe in them? You brought up the Tanakh, not I.

    How exactly is both channeling and a talking burning bush unreliable sources of information? Okay, you're going to have to explain how a talking burning bush is a reliable source of information.

    I'm somehow taking one side over the other? Yeah, that's what beings called humans do, they take sides.

    I'm pushing a religion supposedly received from planetary beings through a trance state, one would think LOGIC again? See the top post about the real meaning of the word logic since you obviously don't have a clue. If you don't believe in angels, then don't, but they're in the Tanakh.

    So you don't think there are any planetary princes, okay, I will look at your evidence. Uh, you have some, don't you?

    Abrahamic religions are from man? So, you're not only a self hating Jew but you're also a man hater, things are adding up.

    Does it sound like you belong to any religion of Abraham to me? Actions speak louder than words. To you the Tanakh is evidence and other books are just later fabrications, so, you believe Jewish beliefs. Whether you're born Jewish or trying to convert is beside the point, you're trying to say that the ancient primitive books are more credible than newer books.

    You don't believe in my God? The Tanakh talks about Him a great deal, and it's really old so, to you, it has to be true even though it came from a bush.

    You're not a follower of Tanakh? But you use it as a credible source, lady, no one really cares what you are, you wanted an argument so you got one.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Where does it say 'humans were created from Satan information' which is also beyond me.
    Right, in the Tanakh Devil is Not used, but he is the Serpent found in Eden. Satan is the ' thee ' of Genesis 3:15
    Rebel Satan is Resister, as Devil he is a Slanderer, as Serpent he is a deceiver, and as Dragon a destroyer.
    I find at Job 2:6 where God says that Job is in 'your'(Satan's) hand. Not what God would do, but what Satan did.
    The four letters of the Tetragrammaton stands for God's personal name.
    In translation there are a few Hebrew pronunciations and the English pronunciation found in KJV Psalms 83:18.
    So, I find it is God's name but different languages use different pronunciations.
     
  8. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    about

    If you listen to the gospel of God instead of using your own interpretations of what you read in the Bible, you will learn what will happen on the day of the Lord and how we'll experience life afterwards.
     
  9. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    My body was labeled a Lutheran when it was a couple of months old but after I began obeying the voice of God 38 years ago, I have become the voice that you need to listen to and learn how you were created.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, in the ' day of the Lord ' at the soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33
    we read what will happen to the figurative humble sheep and the figurative haughty goats.

    Life then under Jesus 1,000-year reign over Earth will undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.
    According to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 even 'enemy death' will be brought to nothing. Isaiah 25:8 agrees.
     
  11. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    No he isn't. Only later sources say such.

    No he isn't. That has no reference to Satan.

    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Perhaps that "serpent" in Eden - somehow refers to the tribe of Dan?

    Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

    It doesn't say that anywhere in Tanakh. Ask our Jewish members. Satan is a servant of YHVH in Tanakh. He is kind of the Tester/Accuser/Prosecuting Attorney. The rest of that evil autonomous being stuff got added on later.

    Again nope. YHVH points him out to the Tester/Satan. The text itself tells us that YHVH is responsible for what happened. It does not accuse Satan anywhere in it. He was doing his YHVH appointed Job.

    Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

    It is not a name. It is a tetragrammaton, because the name wasn't to be written.

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  12. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    LOL!

    Again - How would humans be made - in the minds of MEN - from information called Satan?

    If humans are created in the minds of men - then obviously humans have already been created?

    What is this information called Satan?

    I'm definitely not going to listen to your ideas about Deity.

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    #152 Ingledsva, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Job 42:11 is about those people 'saying' it was due to the LORD. Saying that is Not what Job 2:6 says.
    Those people were mistaken. Even Job made a serious mistake at Job 32:2 B.
    Job even declared his own soul righteous rather than God. God did Not withhold blessing from Job.
    God was aware how Job suffered intensely at Satan's hand ( The ' your ' at Job 2:6 is Satan's hand, Not God's.)
    Job humbly repented according to Job 42:5. God blessed Job at Job 42:12.
     
  14. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Not so. All the way through we are told YHVH did it.

    Job 1:7 And YHVH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered YHVH, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

    Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

    Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

    Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

    Job 5:18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.

    Job 5:19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

    Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

    Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

    Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

    Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

    Job 10:8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.

    Job 10:15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;

    Job 10:16 For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou shewest thyself marvellous upon me.

    Job 10:17 Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increasest thine indignation upon me; changes and war are against me.

    Job 19:6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.

    Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

    Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.

    Job 19:22 Why do you persecute me God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

    Job 23:16 For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

    Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

    Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

    Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

    As you can see the writers put the blame for everything that happens on YHVH, - all the way through the story, = beginning to end.

    *
     
  15. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    Then stop replying.
     
  16. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    The preaching of the gospel during the 1,000 year reign of Christ has ended and now we wait for the earth shattering end with total destruction of everything on earth.

    Matthew 24
    14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.

    Isaiah 24
    18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
    19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
    20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

    2 Peter 3
    7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
    8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

    Isaiah 66
    15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
    16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

    Zephaniah 1
    18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

    Revelation 21
    1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
    8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

    Jeremiah 4
    22: "For my people are foolish, they know me not; they are stupid children, they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil, but how to do good they know not."
    23: I looked on the earth, and lo, it was waste and void; and to the heaven, and they had no light.
    24: I looked on the mountains, and lo, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.
    25: I looked, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the air had fled.
    26: I looked, and lo, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the LORD, before his fierce anger.
    27: For thus says the LORD, "The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
    28: For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be black; for I have spoken, I have purposed; I have not relented nor will I turn back."

    All Christians will perish alongside the rest of the inhabitants on earth.
     
  17. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Answer the questions.

    Again - How would humans be made - in the minds of MEN - from information called Satan?

    If humans are created in the minds of men - then obviously humans would have to be already created, to create those humans. :rolleyes:

    And humans created themselves (before they were created) from Satan information?

    What is this information called Satan?

    *
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    No, all Christians will Not perish, but as Psalms 72:8 says Jesus will have subjects or citizens of God's Kingdom from sea to sea. It is the restless 'sea' of wicked mankind that will be No more and they will Not inherit the Earth as per Isaiah 57:20.

    The ' Earth abides forever ' according to Ecclesiastes 1:4 B.
    What will be gone are those who would bring ruin to Earth according to Revelation 11:18 B. - Isaiah 11:3-4.
    The humble meek people will inherit the Earth as Jesus' promised at Matthew 5:5. And Psalms 37:9-11.
    Earth will become a beautiful paradisical place as described at Isaiah 35
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you are confusing heaven with Heaven. Rev 12:7-9 is talking about heaven not Heaven.
     
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that shows a lack of love. You list your religion as Lutheran. Is that what Luther taught or what you believe?
     
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