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Featured Is there evil in Heaven? If so can Heaven really be perfect?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hella Jingles, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    There is no Lucifer in Tanakh. No evil army raised in heaven. All of that was made up by later people.

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  2. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Thank You. :D

    I've been telling Christians this for years, - and they still don't believe me, - even when I point out that it says "King of Babylon" and "the MAN."

    I'm going to save this.

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  3. JustWondering

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    Since the Abrahamic god is evil and presumed to be in Heaven, then yes, there is evil in Heaven.
     
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  4. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    It appears that you have no idea what is written in the Bible.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    Other than the lake of fire bit I don't believe there is any grounds for what you said.
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that qualifies as fantasy.

    I believe I don't see any basis for this either.

    I believe I enjoy your highlighting of verses but you have not shown any decent reasoning to support your conclusion and it does not automatically follow from the verse.
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you answer is not germane to the issue.
     
  8. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    New heaven and new earth are exactly the future heaven where humans, angels are living with God. Future heaven = new earth and new heaven. It seems to be another physical world (perhaps a mixture of earth and other spaces), where Isaiah has described how the lions there won't bite.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Because Archangel Michael cast Satan and his demonic angels out of heaven according to Revelation 12:7-9, then there is No evil in heaven, so heaven is: Perfect. Because of perfect-heaven conditions is why we can have confidence that those same perfect-heaven conditions will also come to exist right here on Earth.
    Besides No evil in heaven, there is No sickness in heaven, No death in heaven, No crime nor war in heaven just "Perfect". Perfect for heaven, and because there is No evil in heaven, then those same perfect conditions will come and exist right here on Earth.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I agree that angels live with God in heaven, and so do those of Revelation 20:6 who have a first or earlier resurrection live in heaven as Jesus also does. The rest of mankind will be resurrected later on when Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over earth begins. That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.......

    Please note that at 2 Peter 3:5 there are the heavens and earth of OLD.
    ( heaven(s) is plural because in Scripture heavens can refer to governmental heavens as ruling over mankind )
    Verse 5 was the old heavens and old earth of Noah's day. Not a different planet.
    Please note that at 2 Peter 3:7 it talks about the heavens and earth of NOW.
    That would be our existing heavens and earth from Noah's day to our day.
    So, the NEW heavens and earth of verse 13 is talking about a cleansed heavens and earth.
    As the heavens and earth were cleansed of wickedness in Noah's day, so our day will be the same.
    The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the corrupted heavens and earth of all wickedness according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16. God will bring to ruin those ruining earth according to Revelation 11:18 B.
     
  11. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

    1Co 5:5 Commit those of this sort to the satanas/accuser(prosecuting attorney) so that punishment of the flesh/human-nature, results in spirit (spiritual) healing/saving before the day of the Lord Jesus.

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  12. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Except that this is an END-TIME prophecy. So they wouldn't have been cast out yet.

    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

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  13. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    I don't care at all what you think.
     
  14. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    All the flesh ( human beings ) of man will perish during this temporary generation because they are born of Satan. In one hour on the day of the Lord, all flesh will be destroyed and burned up in the fire of God.

    Revelation 18
    7: As she glorified herself and played the wanton, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning. Since in her heart she says, `A queen I sit, I am no widow, mourning I shall never see,'
    8: so shall her plagues come in a single day, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she shall be burned with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."
    9: And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning;
    10: they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, "Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come."

    17: In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste." And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off

    Zephaniah 1
    18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.
     
  15. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    But that obviously cannot be because prior to being kicked out, evil WAS in heaven.
     
  16. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    It seems to me that Lucifer in Islam is Satan the Devil himself..and He will be in Hellfire forever...So there is no Evil in Heaven.
     
  17. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    If there is a heaven I do not believe free will to be a thing, I do not believe in free will on earth either. I think if a heaven exist then a god would undoubtedly reform that person to perfection and remove aspects it finds impure.

    . . . thus the will of the gods.
     
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  18. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    Evil is immorality, wickedness. This does not exist in heaven but the human understanding of heaven is primitive. Heaven is the home of God, to be more specific, God's essence or brain. The universe is God's body. Between the material universe and heaven are many levels and humans have always misunderstood this. Your scientists call these levels dimensions.

    Angels do not come from heaven. Angels are created outside of heaven to do work for the universe. Some angels do travel to heaven to do specific work there but they are a small percentage.

    Lucifer was not a pillar of heaven's community. Lucifer has never been to heaven. He, like all angels, only knows what he has been told about God and heaven and Lucifer was not the most beautiful angel. He was a "Bright Morning Star", which means he was an administrative leader in charge of this universe.

    Lucifer did not raise an army. The "war" in heaven was a war of words. Lucifer rebelled against Jesus because Jesus was about to begin His earthly bestowal mission and once that was completed Lucifer would have to step down as CEO of the universe because Jesus would be taking over. Many angels sided with Lucifer because the angels knew Lucifer and had worked with him as their leader. The angels did not know Jesus who was disposed doing the work that only He could do.

    Heaven is perfect but the divine definition of perfection is not the same as the human definition of perfection.

    There is free will in heaven but it's not absolute free will. No being has absolute free will except God.

    Beings in heaven are not evil. This is impossible. There has never been any transgressions by any being in heaven. Once you evolve to the level of a heavenly being your selfishness fades away.

    There can be no eating or drinking in heaven? There is no eating because the soul is energy. We exchange energy with God.

    There will be no sports or games in heaven? There is recreation. Losing is not bad unless you are a spoiled brat and if you are you won't ever get to heaven.

    There is no gambling in heaven? There are no rules because none are needed. No one would participate in your gambling attempt. If you need to take from others to feel good about yourself you won't be getting into heaven anyway.

    There is no trivial pursuit? All beings in heaven can access the Akashic record, essentially, all information that God has. So there would be no point.

    Will there be art in heaven? Heaven is art.

    The really good artists are in hell? If they went to "hell" then they no longer exist.

    Will there be sex in heaven? No.

    Will there be movies in heaven? Everyone can access all information from every society and every being and every universe throughout all time so there will be more movies and stories than you can possibly imagine.

    It always amazes me how primitive beings struggle to explain something that is light years beyond their ability to comprehend. Can an ant explain the sun?
     
  19. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    In my opinion this is all myth.

    And Good grief! That is baloney! You are mixing verses.

    Rev 18 is Babylon, meaning evil, and it mentions false prophets etc.

    Where are you coming up with the idea that all humans are born of Satan?

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  20. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    There is no Lucifer in Tanakh.

    Later people made those stories up.

    It amazes me how you folks grab from different religions, mix them up, and claim what you say is correct.
     
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