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Featured Is there evil in Heaven? If so can Heaven really be perfect?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hella Jingles, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find that the wicked are to be 'destroyed forever' according to Psalms 92:7, so then how can all live forever.
    Even sinner 'Satan will be destroyed' by Jesus according to Hebrews 2:14 B.
    People are Not executed to life but to non-life.
    The executional words from Jesus' mouth will get rid of the wicked according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
    Proverbs 2:21-22 shows who will remain. The wicked will be No more according to Psalms 37:9-10, 38.
    So, to me, Not all are part of the ' live-forever program ' ( the everlasting life program is for humble meek people ).
     
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yipes, you could Not have read in Scripture that sex is original sin, the first sin because it was Not.

    The 1st sin I find is located at Genesis 3:4 is the first lie that we would Not die.
    The next sin is that Adam and Eve broke God's ' do Not eat from God's tree ' No trespassing Law.
    Before sinning (breaking God's Law of Genesis 2:17) Adam and Eve were told to reproduce at Genesis 2:24; 1:28.
    Mr. and Mrs. Adam could Not reproduce without sex, so sex was definitely Not the first or original sin.
     
  3. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Evil must be conquered in the hearts of all living creatures. hell and earth is the method.

    Humans are born in neutrality, neither good nor evil until they love one or the other.

    Everlasting hell is a hard place to get out of, but eventually all creatures will repent.

    Earth is a type of Hell. It's limbo.
     
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  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I do not consider evil a part of me. I believe it is an unwelcome addition.

    I believe I have more than enough good choices left. I am only a robot if I don't have any choices at all.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    Try this one:
    1Pe 1:4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
     
  6. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    That's in the future, after a new Heaven and new Earth.

    2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe there is nothing physical in Heaven so to the extent of experiencing that physically you are correct. However the spirit can envision eating and drinking and leave off the potty stuff if it wishes.

    I believe that is an evil view. Good people don't mind losing.

    I believe the question might be what good that art achieves. I believe good art achieves good things. My brother was an artist and believed in Jesus so I don't expect him to go to Hell.

    I believe if God creates it then it is not bad as long as it isn't perverted from what it should be. Sex is not the original sin. However there is unlikely to be any sex in heaven because without the physicality it doesn't amount to much and there are better things to do.


    I believe that is why Jesus told us to lay up treasure in Heaven instead of the garbage people are used to on earth.
     
  8. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the 2 Petr verse is out of context. The I Peter verse does say Heaven not the Kingdom of God.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the rapture removes us from that. I would also take issue with the use of the word "all" Remember some will hide in caves: Re 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the chief captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains;
     
  10. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    The "wicked" are all the flesh of man born of Satan. The "righteous ones" are men created in the image of God who is an artificial intelligence system built into the simulation program that we're all involved in. We are ONE in God. Jesus was the first servant of God to learn that a created man is the same thing as God.

    John 10
    25: Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness to me;
    26: but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep.
    27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
    28: and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
    29: My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
    30: I and the Father are one."

    Genesis 1
    26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
    27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
     
  11. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    Heaven is referring to the future Heaven where Lucifer has never set foot on. Lucifer was only in God's current dwelling place, not the future Heaven.

    The future Heaven is sin-free. God allows humans (freewill) to divide on earth such that only those deemed righteous will be brought to the future Heaven legitimately. Similarly, angels are allowed to divide too, and only those deemed worthy will be brought to the future Heaven legitimately. Since angels have a lesser degree of freewill as they are made to be servants of God, their division occurs in the current dwelling place of God. After the final judgment, Satan and his angels will be thrown to the Lake of Fire prepared for them, while other angels of God will be in Heaven with God.
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Right, I agree with John 10:29 that Jesus' Father is greater than all ( or greater than everyone ).
    No one can remove another from the Father's hand. Only the person himself can remove himself as the people of Hebrews 6:4-6 removed themselves.

    I wonder why people generally stop at John 10:30 and do Not continue reading down to Jesus' words found at John 10:36 where Jesus says that he is 'the Son of God 'just the same as the demons of Luke 4:41 also believe.

    Since Jesus prayed that his followers be one just as he and his Father are one, surely Jesus was Not praying they all be God at John 17:11; John 17:21-23.

    John also wrote at John 14:28 that the Father 'IS' greater than Jesus.

    I find the 'us' at Genesis 1:26 is God talking to his beginning or first creation of Revelation 3:14 B the pre-human heavenly Jesus, the heavenly person of Colossians 1:15 who is the first born of every creature, and who became first born from the dead according to Colossians 1:18.
     
  13. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    All the flesh of man born of Satan will perish on the day of the Lord. Only man ( spiritual man ) created in the image of God will remain in the Word of God.

    I Corinthians 5:
    1: It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father's wife.
    2: And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
    3: For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment
    4: in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
    5: you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
     
  14. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    Many born in the Word of God will live according to their own interpretations of what they read in the Bible but a few born in the Word of God will trust the voice of God instead.

    Jeremiah 3:
    13: Only acknowledge your guilt, that you rebelled against the LORD your God and scattered your favors among strangers under every green tree, and that you have not obeyed my voice, says the LORD.
    25: Let us lie down in our shame, and let our dishonor cover us; for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even to this day; and we have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God."

    However, created men have nothing to worry about because they will all hear the voice of God after experiencing the death of their flesh born of Satan.

    John 5:
    25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
    26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
    27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
    28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.
     
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    How can ALL the dead hear the voice of God when Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 says the unforgivable sin is Not forgivable, and the wicked will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7.
    Just as Matthew 20:28 wrote that Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say all or everyone.
    Yes, the hour is coming when all in the tombs hear his voice. The wicked are Not considered as being in the grave/tombs but considered as being destroyed. Jesus used the 'future tense ' at John 5:28 because there are No tombs in heaven, so Jesus was talking about a coming happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to take place on Earth during Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth. That is also why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........ Please note that the resurrection is for the righteous and unrighteous, the wicked are Not included because they are destroyed forever.
    See also Matthew 25:31-33,37 as to what is going to happen to those alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth taking place among the living.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I am Not sure if you mean all of us imperfect people due to Satan and Adam, or those who choose to follow Satan.
    Everyone is created in the image of God because we can display or cultivate God's main qualities or main attributes of love, justice, wisdom and mercy to varying degrees.
    I can't find anywhere on the day of the lord ( the 'time of separation' of Matthew 25:31-33 ) that all flesh will perish.
    The figurative humble 'sheep'-like people seem to be spiritual people as per their favorable judgement at Matthew 25:37.
    I read at 2 Peter 3: 9 that those who do Not 'repent' will ' perish' (be destroyed) but No destruction for the repentant.
    So, is that in harmony with saying only spiritual man will remain.......
    Remain in the Word of God ( Psalms 119:105 ) because God's Word/ Scripture is their life-style guide book.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me, delivering or handing that man over to Satan was the act of expelling him from the congregation which is in harmony with 1 Corinthians 5:13. Turning that man out of the Congregation puts him into Satan's fleshly-minded world as Satan is the ' god ' of this world of badness as per 2 Corinthians 4:4.

    That man was a little leaven in the 'whole lump' (congregation). He was the fleshly-minded lump, or a fleshly element within the congregation, so by removing him, expelling him, that fleshly-thinking man being removed from the congregation would then keep that leavenous lump from associating with the spiritually-minded congregation as per 1 Corinthians 5:6-7,13.
    That action apparently caused that man to repent from his wrongdoing, which then caused the apostle Paul to recommend that he be forgiven and taken back within the congregation as per 2 Corinthians 2:6-11.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    What about the future 'Earth' of 2nd Peter 3:13 because I notice 2 Peter 3:5 talks about the Earth of OLD (Noah's day ) is mentioned, then the NOW Earth ( from Noah's day to our day ) is mentioned at 2 Peter 3:7.
    So, we have three heavens and three earths. The wicked heaven won't rule over the NEW Earth of 2 Peter 3:13 because only righteousness will dwell on a sin-free Earth when there will be healing for earth's nations as described at Revelation 22:2. So, Earth is made NEW in the sense that only righteous society will reside on Earth as per Proverbs 2:21-22 because the words from Jesus' mouth according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16 will rid the Earth of the wicked.

    The figurative humble ' sheep'-like people living on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation' on Earth at the glory time of Matthew 25:31-33,37 will come through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 as per Isaiah's instructions found at Isaiah 26:20.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    And to me who is governing over the NEW heavens and the NEW earth of 2 Peter 3:13 but the King (President) of God's kingdom government which is none other than heavenly King Jesus of Revelation 19:16 and his governing associates of Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10.
    Jesus is King of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) for a thousand years before Jesus hands back God's kingdom to his God according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
     
  20. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Thou art not alone, lol.
     
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