1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is there any rights for women in the Bible?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by TashaN, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,496
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Islam
    [size=-1]Unto the women he (God) said "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shall bring forth children and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."[/size]
    [size=-1]-Genesis 3:16[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days... But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks...[/size]
    [size=-1]- Leviticus 12:2-8[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And whoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the beds whereon he lieth shall be unclean... This is the law of him that hath an issue, and of him whose seed goeth from him, and is defiled therewith; and of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lie with her that is unclean.[/size]
    [size=-1]- Leviticus 15:17-33[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.[/size]
    [size=-1]- Colossians 3:18[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands...[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Peter 3:1[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Likewise ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel...[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Peter 3:7[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1][Women] are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.[/size]
    [size=-1]- I Corinthians 14:34[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man...[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Corinthians 11:3[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Corinthians 11:9[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly swell, and thy thigh to rot: and the woman shall say Amen, amen.[/size]
    [size=-1]- Numbers 5:20-22[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die...[/size]
    [size=-1]- Deuteronomy 22:20-21[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]It is better to live in a corner of the roof than in a house shared with a contentious woman.[/size]
    [size=-1]- Proverbs 25:24[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Now that she is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Timothy 5:5-6[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Let your women keep silent in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Corinthians 14:34[/size][size=-1][/size]

    [size=-1]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[/size]
    [size=-1]- 1 Timothy 2:11-12[/size][size=-1][/size] [size=-1]Wives, submit yourselves unto your husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church...[/size]
    [size=-1]- Ephesians 5:22-23[/size]


    - Is this how the bible teach human beings how to treat thier women?
    - Is this how christianity see the woman?
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,657
    That's some subject, 'The truth' - the best way to deal with what the Bible says about women is perhaps best covered on this site:-

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/women.htm
    A very short extract of the site is as follows;





    The Rights of Women in the Bible and Quran Revisited


    Here is what Jesus thought of women, taken from the very pages of the NT which he, through his Spirit, inspired:
    "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. IN THE SAME WAY, the husband's body does not belong to him alone BUT ALSO TO HIS WIFE. Do not deprive each other except by MUTUAL consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." 1 Corinthians 7:1-5

    "Husbands, love your wives, JUST AS Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife AS HE LOVES HIMSELF, and the wife must respect her husband." Ephesians 5:25-33

    "Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them." Colossians 3:19

    "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as HEIRS with you of the gracious gift of life, SO THAT NOTHING WILL HINDER YOUR PRAYERS." 1 Peter 3:7

    It is evident that when Peter says wives are the weaker vessels, he means this in relation to their physical makeup, since he clearly says that wives are heirs of the promise along with their husbands. In fact, Peter says that a husband’s prayers will be hindered, or rendered ineffective, if he fails to treat his wife with respect. Hence, loving and treating one’s wife kindly is an integral part of having one’s prayers heard!

    :)
     
  3. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,496
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Islam
    This site you just posted is about women in Islam & Christianity and we have to create a new thread to compare between woman in Islam & Christianity but i just put this thread here because it's biblical forum and i hope that we stick to the bible view of it and if you want i can go with you into another thread in somehwhere else to talk about women in Islam & Christianity.

    Michel are you serious?

    Your english may be better than mine but i went to the dictionary and i'll post here what i got.

    1. A hollow utensil, such as a cup, vase, or pitcher, used as a container, especially for liquids.
      1. Nautical. A craft, especially one larger than a rowboat, designed to navigate on water.
      2. An airship.
    2. Anatomy. A duct, canal, or other tube that contains or conveys a body fluid: a blood vessel.
    3. Botany. One of the tubular conductive structures of xylem, consisting of dead cylindrical cells that are attached end to end and connected by perforations. They are found in nearly all flowering plants.
    4. A person seen as the agent or embodiment, as of a quality: a vessel of mercy.
    The noun vessel has 3 meanings:

    Meaning #1: a tube in which a body fluid circulates
    Synonym: vas


    Meaning #2: a craft designed for water transportation
    Synonym: watercraft


    Meaning #3: an object used as a container (especially for liquids)




    non of these words mentioned anything about phisical makeup !!!

    "those who did not defile themselves with women", which means (1) No females will be among those men; and (2) Women are defiling to men.

    I didn't get it ?? i couldn't understand how the christians explain the defile.

    The meaning of defile in the dictionary is:

    1. To make filthy or dirty; pollute: defile a river with sewage.
    2. To debase the pureness or excellence of; corrupt: a country landscape that was defiled by urban sprawl.
    3. To profane or sully (a reputation, for example).
    4. To make unclean or unfit for ceremonial use; desecrate: defile a temple.
    5. To violate the chastity of.
    :help: ​
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,657
    The noun vessel has 3 meanings:






    If you look at the Compact Oford Dictionary; http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/vessel?view=uk


    vessel

    • noun 1 a ship or large boat. 2 a hollow container used to hold liquid. 3 a tube or duct conveying a fluid within an animal body or plant structure. 4 (in or alluding to biblical use) a person regarded as embodying a particular quality: giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel.




    "those who did not defile themselves with women", which means (1) No females will be among those men; and (2) Women are defiling to men.

    The reason I quoted that site was because it contains the entire argument about how women are seen in the Bible; if you ignore the references to Islam, the explanation is just as valid.:)
     
  5. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,496
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Islam
    yes michel i mean the biblical meaning?

    can you explain for me how such a word like weaker vessel turned to be
    honour unto wife? :confused:



    Did you explained this already for me or not yet?

    so do you accept the meaning that Women are defiling to men?
     
  6. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +311
    Paul does say that a husband has responsabilities to a wife, but he hardly giver her rights.

    Paul also says that a man's head is his glory, and that a woman's head is her shame; that Jesus is the head of man, and man is the head of woman; that women should have a mark of authority on their heads; that women should learn in submission, and never be in a position of authority.

    The OT is even more clear. Women are chattel, listed in the commandments with other livestock. There value is "50 sheckles".
     
  7. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,496
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Islam
    Whom we supposed to believe? God or Paul ? God is saying somthing and
    Paul (human being)is saying somthing else.
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,657
    The truth;

    I have tried hard to explain what you have asked to have explained; I can do no more than to repeat what I have told you; your first question related to the question of the way women are seen in Christianity - I referred you to a forum where a full explanation (Comparing the Islamic and Christian differences) is given, and yet you keep coming back, with the same questions.

    You ask me to explain how the word 'vessel' can apply to women, and I give you the URL of the dictionary which defines the word, and yet you come back again.

    I don't feel particularly good to do so, but I will have to tell you that I have tried my hardest to explain what you have asked me to explain, and yet you keep coming back with the same questions.

    I have done all that I can.:)
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    41,673
    Ratings:
    +16,228
    Religion:
    Judaism
    It is a sign of weakness, not strength, when one resorts to quoting one set of verses to offset another. The culture that wrote the Bible was intensely male chauvinist. That the Bible also speaks of loving and honoring ones spouse is no more surprising than the fact that many, is not most, male chauvinists likewise love and honor their spouses.
     
  10. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    Well said... and I'd also like to add that for most places, the Christian world continues to be male chauvinist.
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,657


    I had never thought of that, but I guess it rings true.
     
  12. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,496
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Islam
    Thanks Michel, i just wanted to know why in the website you told me about as an online dictionary mentioned the biblical meaning for weaker vessel as honour unto wife and what is the relationship between them and i'm sorry again if i couldn't understand.

    BTW, you don't have to answer me this time regarding to this post.

    thanks again for your patient and your cooperation.



    Peace ... :)
     
Loading...