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is there any religion that is not structured as a tautology?

cambridge79

Active Member
One of my favourite words!
Could you give some examples of the sort of thing you mean?

the most simple? circular reasoning:
God exists because this book says it does.
This book is special because god inspired it.

or another big one: God is good no matter what. If something good happens, praise to god. If something bad happens "he moves in misterious ways and who are we to read his mind".

Religions look to me just like casinos where the house always wins no matter how the dice rolls.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
the most simple? circular reasoning:
God exists because this book says it does.
This book is special because god inspired it.

or another big one: God is good no matter what. If something good happens, praise to god. If something bad happens "he moves in misterious ways and who are we to read his mind".

Religions look to me just like casinos where the house always wins no matter how the dice rolls.
i don't think we have the same definition of tautology .

what is yours ?
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
The majority of Western Left Hand Path religions would not resort to Tautology
 

cambridge79

Active Member
i don't think we have the same definition of tautology .

what is yours ?

basically an assumption or a set of assumptions that will always end up to be true no matter the claims that leads to that/those assumptions therefore being completely void of any logical value or information. Basically a dice that always shows the number you want no metter how you roll it.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
am i not giving the chance here to believers to prove what they believe is not a tautology?
Not really. How does one even begin to answer an open ended question which automatically assumes its own accusation? Why do people believe things I deem to be believed in arbitrarily? I'm sorry, but that's not a question open to honest discussion.
 

cambridge79

Active Member
Not really. How does one even begin to answer an open ended question which automatically assumes its own accusation? Why do people believe things I deem to be believed in arbitrarily? I'm sorry, but that's not a question open to honest discussion.

if it's such a badly structured question an honest answer would be enough to dismantle it.

If i for example ask "is there any black people who can do math" you may accuse me to be a racists, you may not like the way the question is structured and consider it biased and you would be right on it.
But just presenting you as a black person and showing me that you can do 2+2 = 4 would be enough to make my claim collapse and expose me for the racist i would eventually be.

unless to prove your point you would require me to accept things by faith, in wich case would prove that yours is only a tautology, wich is true only if i believe in it.
 
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cambridge79

Active Member
Sure. What many people consider the core principles of Buddhism -- that is, the Four Noble Truths -- do not appear to be a tautology.

even not considering the conclusions you derive from those truth, how are those truth considered to be actual truth in first place? why would you assume they're valid for any human being? Just because Buddah said so, or because you've asked any human being if he recognizes himself in those? Or you think that since those apply to you they somehow must be good for anyone else?
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
is there any religion that is not structured as a tautology?
Do you mean that the purpose of religion is to answer the question of a claim with those same claims?

Then yes, there are religions that are not about answering any questions or making any challenging claims, but about the practice and relation to deity in accord with man's place in the world.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
even not considering the conclusions you derive from those truth, how are those truth considered to be actual truth in first place? why would you assume they're valid for any human being? Just because Buddah said so, or because you've asked any human being if he recognizes himself in those? Or you think that since those apply to you they somehow must be good for anyone else?
Those are not questions of religion but of philosophy.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
even not considering the conclusions you derive from those truth, how are those truth considered to be actual truth in first place? why would you assume they're valid for any human being? Just because Buddah said so, or because you've asked any human being if he recognizes himself in those?

I'm not myself a Buddhist but I'm wondering what your agenda is here? In the OP you asked if any religions are not based on tautologies. I offered you an example of one that apparently isn't. Your response was to ignore the question of whether or not it was a tautology and instead question it on all sorts of unrelated grounds. So at this point I'm left wondering you were all that honest in your OP. Are you really here to discuss tautological religions? Or are you just anti-religious? There's nothing wrong with with being anti-religious. But it's also boring to try to explain religions to people who are anti-religious -- and usually also a waste of time because they tend to have their minds made up -- and I really don't think it's worth it for me to waste my time here.

Oh, by the way, in answer to one of your questions: It doesn't take a Buddhist to know that Buddhism emphasizes the necessity of each person experiencing the truths of the religion for themselves, rather than merely accept the authority of the Buddha or the clergy. It teaches that if you cannot after thorough effort personally confirm a teaching to be true, you are to reject it.
 
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