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Featured Is there an Ultimate beginning to existence?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by osgart, May 23, 2018.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Does an ultimate beginning carry implications?

     
  2. Terese

    Terese Mangalam Pundarikakshah
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    I see existence as something that always existed, not created at a point in time. In my belief, there have been innumerable "big bangs" in innumerable universes.

    If reality did have an ultimate beginning, then one would have to question what created this beginning. When something is born/created, it would inevitably die/destroyed. This law is present everywhere in our universe. By this logic, if existence did have an ultimate beginning it would have an ultimate end.
     
    #2 Terese, May 24, 2018
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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  3. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Well according to the video its well within reason. Science has to grapple with an ultimate beginning.

    I suspect innumerable big bangs myself. But in my mind they are finite even being innumerable because of the low entropy in the universe.

    It certainly leaves the door open for religious questions.
     
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  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    A beginning to existence? Yes. Age 40. Anything under that is just getting by.
     
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  5. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    What, is there a difference between an ultimate beginning and a normal beginning?
     
  6. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    One's on Netflix, the other on normal TV
     
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  7. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    Everything begins with a thought.
    What are the implications of that?
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Is there an Ultimate beginning to existence?

    I believe that the ultimate beginning and end (as the human perceive) are the creation of G-d, as two of His names (attributes) are Al-Awwal, the First and Al-Akhir the Last. He has caused the beginning and he will cause the ending. Please
    Regards
     
  9. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The universe may well not be the fullness of all that exists. So asking the question of the universe's origin may not supply the same answers as asking for an origin for existence. Also, we do not know what the universe is comprised of. There are very likely forms of energy, and phenomena that results, that we are as yet completely unaware of. So I would say that until we can at least define the question, better, we will not be able to generate any reasonable answer.
     
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  10. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    I implicate from that, that you just made it up.
     
  11. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    If it is not true then what comes before the thought?
     
  12. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    The egg.
     
  13. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Workin at stuff comes before the good thought. Will to do.

    I find a lot of just thinking leads to a lot of just thinking.
     
  14. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    For the most part, not really. I don't know of any pragmatic human endeavor that relies on us knowing the ultimate origin of existence. For example, if we want to study Ebola breakouts we really don't need to know how the universe came about. How do hurricanes form? Again, we don't need to know a thing about the origin of the universe to explain that. All in all, proximal causes are usually all we need.
     
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  15. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Well mathematically these scientists figured out that everything we know of could reasonably have had an absolute beginning, prior to which nothing existed of anything whatsoever.
     
  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Try this one on: existence is what it is. If existence didn’t exist at some point, it wouldn’t be what it is: existence. And since non-existence, by definition, does not produce existent things, existence cannot spring from non-existence. Otherwise, non-existence would be ... existence, and non-existence would not ... exist. So there can, at all times, only exist existence. Non-existence doesn’t exist.
     
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  17. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Yes, true, but our universe, and a multiverse must have an absolute beginning according to borde vilenkin guth theorem

    . So, i say, what existed prior to all this existence, causing this existence to exist. It is either an infinite regress of causes, or an uncaused cause that exists eternally. In short anything finite, must have an eternal cause. Unless you have another possibility?
     
  18. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    It's kind of funny, a real mind blower. Paradoxes will do it for you.

    How can you fit an ultimate beginning into what for all intents and purposes has to be infinite in one way, shape, or form?

    I can see an ultimate beginning to the universe but can't see it for the "field" of endless space by which the universe is arguably in.
     
  19. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    So your saying the universe; space time, energy, and matter are contained within endless space of another kind then our own space?
     
  20. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    As with any story, the relevance of its implications depends on how devoted you are to the narrative. Mythological narratives are used as a canvass upon which additional meaningfulness is painted.

    For example, origin stories generally fall into two basic types - those that presuppose time is linear, and those that presuppose time is cyclical. Whether you think of time as being linear or cyclical can have an impact on how you approach life in general. The type of origin story that posits an "ultimate beginning" only supports a linear view of time. You'll tend to view things as having a definite beginning, middle, and end; there are no do-overs. Both apocalyptic and utopian narratives are driven by a linear view of time in that they suppose a sort of final destination that will not change once it's reached. Some conceptions of afterlives in religions work that way too - you're born, you live, you die, you're sentenced for eternity with no do-overs.
     
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