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Is there an obligation for a faith believer

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
It's not about you personally and whether you have or don't have spiritual wisdom. Because who should make that judgement? Are there any person on Earth, which you would consider able to judge your level of spiritual wisdom?

You see the difference between that and my example earlier with a math teacher? Its very easy to judge the teacher's knowledge about math or a historian's knowledge about a history period, because we can measure it against something. Whether that is someone else's knowledge or simply against what evidence are available.

So with that in mind, it should be somewhat obvious that whenever we are talking about personal "journeys" or knowledge then we can't do this judgement. So the moment you claim that person A (believer) can obtain spiritual knowledge but person B can't (Me/atheists), then you ought to be able to demonstrate it or give a good argument for why or how you know this?
As i said before, through years of spiritual practice
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
From discussion with some very few non believers of religion or spiritual practice, it seems like they see it as an obligation for the faith believers to explain in details "Why, How and in what way" the faith believers come to their personal belief.
No, RF gives you the choice, Some forums are for discussion only, and some forums are for debate.

If you choose a debate forum, then naturally you can be asked to explain, and if needs be defend, your position.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
From discussion with some very few non believers of religion or spiritual practice, it seems like they see it as an obligation for the faith believers to explain in details "Why, How and in what way" the faith believers come to their personal belief.

But say its an obligation to explain to anyone who just going to refuse the answer as wishful thinking, falacy, or other negative intepretations done by the non believer.

The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

So non believers, if you want the real answers from religious scripture, you better start practicing, because there are no short cuts to gain wisdom from scriptures, one has to practice it every day to gain wisdom and deeper understanding.

If a faith believer just give you an answer, you yourself has not gained anything at all.

If you make a claim and want me to take it seriously then I do feel that you have some obligation to explain why you believe what you believe.

The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

Sounds like confirmation bias to me. You start off deciding what you want to be true and then spend years trying to find justification for holding that belief. How can anyone sincerely practice a religious belief for years unless they start off taking it on faith that the teachings are valid and worthwhile?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
If you make a claim and want me to take it seriously then I do feel that you have some obligation to explain why you believe what you believe.

The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

Sounds like confirmation bias to me. You start off deciding what you want to be true and then spend years trying to find justification for holding that belief. How can anyone sincerely practice a religious belief for years unless they start off taking it on faith that the teachings are valid and worthwhile?
It goes from faith to wisdom. Starting with a belief and faith in the teaching, the more one practice, the more certain one gets, and the deeper understanding og the teaching leads to wisdom of the hidden realms (heaven)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
"to make someone feel morally or legally forced to do something"

- obligate
:)

If you think/believe X, if somebody says they do not accept X as true, it is one's free choice as to whether or not to engage, whatever the subject. This forum is a place for exchanges, but one is not compelled in any specific case to engage or attempt to persuade
:cool:

Feel free not to respond :)
I do
I love it

I don't think anyone should feel under any obligation
Very True. 100% sure
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
If you make a claim and want me to take it seriously then I do feel that you have some obligation to explain why you believe what you believe
:cool:
Only IF I want you to take it seriously
BUT I have no desire to convince you

Truth NEVER needs to be explained

People who are ready, they feel it
Hence, no need to explain it

And

Those who are not ready don't feel it
However often it would be explained to them
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

Sounds like confirmation bias to me
Not at all to me. No need to believe me

PROOF: IF you are thrown in the water, you better start to swim, don't wait to get proof that swimming is the solution here. You could wait a little, drown a little, and than you have your proof

No need to think at all.

Ones Questioning Mind that waits too long, could actually get you killed
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You start off deciding what you want to be true and then spend years trying to find justification for holding that belief.
Clearly you speak for yourself here

Because

I don't start off deciding what I want to be true
I don't try to find justification for my belief
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Again: this is not the attitude of someone who cares whether their beliefs are true.
There can never be any physical evidence of God since God is not a physical being, so that is why believes like me and @Seeker of White Light have to have faith that God exists without physical evidence. The Messengers of God were physical as well as spiritual beings so they are the best evidence that God exists.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
So then it is your position that not every religious belief is equally valid or has value. What mechanism do you use to evaluate and distinguish between religious beliefs with validity and value and those that do not. Your only advice to date seems to be that one should pick one and stick with it.

When you say that all past religious teachings have truth in them, do you mean that one can find small nuggets of truth amongst a bulk of fiction or that they are all completely true or represent truth (whatever that may mean to you).

If all past religious teachings are only partially true in some fashion, again how does one distinguish the nugget of truth from the dross?
As I understand it, when @Seeker of White Light says "all religious teachings have truth to them" he is referring to the original scriptures, not to every later expounder of those those scriptures.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Life is natural. We all own it.

Science however is not natural as it's practiced.

Life isn't any practice. Do something wrong and none of us might own it anymore.

Now if a human says if you want to claim science is natural it can't be practiced.

Pretty basic human intelligence which is first owned naturally. Intelligence.

Intelligence isn't any other type of human term.

Therefore to have to argue life is natural. Intelligently innocent and spiritual. We are then forced to argue human rights. You assess why.

Science as a practice became that argument as it changed the nature of how we live.

Just as they do now. We had to argue for human rights. To live and be healthy and happy.

Was why books were written to document the reasons of an argument to gain support of the human realisation I needed to argue.

Which was how humans came about implementing a human legal system.

As natural laws were being changed by men with machines.

Spirituality is instinctively natural.

It doesn't have a purpose as we always owned and lived it.

Today we are forced to argue that it is natural as evil scientists theme it was acquired. As they wanted to acquire the highest natural evaluation which just happened to be humans life living.

Is as wrong as science is.

As we are all just humans first it's about time you realise why we argued for lifes continued existence and rights.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
It goes from faith to wisdom. Starting with a belief and faith in the teaching, the more one practice, the more certain one gets, and the deeper understanding og the teaching leads to wisdom of the hidden realms (heaven)

That's the way confirmation bias works. You start with a belief and faith in the teaching and then seek 'evidence' to try to support and justify that faith. But any method that begins with and relies on faith is a poor method for ascertaining genuine truth, since faith is not a reliable path to the truth.
 
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