I think it’s an attempt at cozying up to Jews who don’t do it for superstitious reasons.
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Is there a system in Nature/Universe, and in Quran/the Word of G-d?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One is totally mistaken, please.
I have been in debate with the Judaism people one could see my posts, please.
Please point out if there is anything superstitious in my post in the thread.
Friend! One seems to be in a displeasure mode. Is it so, please?
Please concentrate on one's reasons and arguments. Right, please?
Cheer up friend!
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please elaborate "water cycle", for me which one has has explored with one's own observation, please.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That is one reason why I learnt from Judaism people to write G-d instead of god, please.
The other reason is that there are languages in which while writing the vowels are not written only the constants are written. I write it like G-d but I don't convince others to do it . Why insist on it, please? Right, please?
We should concentrate on the topic of the thread. Right, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
A system as in a pattern nature has that is synonym to a creator?
From a nature perspective, no. There's no pattern or system. Take cancer and seizures. The body does what it's supposed to do. We can't tell the body it acted "unnaturally" just because it went out of its perceived system. We treat these things because of the results of them. If they caused no results (like my benign tumor), there is no reason to treat itSame with seizures and earthquakes and storms.
People make patterns or systems; and, when we break out of those systems say disobey god of the Quran or sin or so have you, it's a human mishap. So, from a human perspective we see systems and patterns everywhere. That's how we survive. Think of it if we didn't know the process of some cancers and we didn't understand the nature of one seizure over another, we'd be, um, at a disadvantage.
I haven't read the Quran in full to compare.
I am sorry for the diseases one has mentioned in one's post. Medical Research is going on and I pray to G-d that they succeed to cure it. Right, please?
Please read Quran from cover to cover and enlighten us with one's observation and experience in this connection. Right, please?
Regards
I’ve noticed that when you are criticised you project feelings onto others which they may not have.
Your wrong belief here is that you believe that when people add the letter ‘o’ to God that it implies a reference to a human being.
This is not necessarily the case.
“God” can refer to anything one considers a God just as “G-d” can.
It would be a bit like spelling “Allah” as “-ll-h” because the pre-Muslim Christians used to use the word to refer to Jesus, or because the pre-Muslim pagans May have used it to refer to their supreme deity.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Shouldn't we agree to disagree about "Science Exists" or doesn't exist, please? Right, please?
We continue with other points however, please. Right, please?
Regards
It is easier to elaborate these things using diagrams.
You may find a diagram of the water cycle here: The Water Cycle
I just don't know what to make of your apparent claim that somehow science does not exist.
Is that even a disagreement?
1) First one has to put forward the claim from G-d that he has authored it, please.
The Quran opens with;
"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful"
The Kitab-i-iqan opens with;
"IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD, THE EXALTED, THE MOST HIGH"
Point one confirmed, both revealed in the name of Allah/God, who is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, the Most exalted, the Most High.
2) Then the reasons/signs from G-d that it is undoubtedly authored it.
Muslim - Subjective - No, they hope
Baha'i - Subjective - Big Yes
The closing passages of the Kitab-i-iqan indicates why it is subjective;
"...We perceive none, however, amongst the people of the earth who, sincerely yearning for the Truth, seeketh the guidance of the divine Manifestations concerning the abstruse matters of his Faith. All are dwellers in the land of oblivion, and all are followers of the people of wickedness and rebellion. God will verily do unto them that which they themselves are doing, and will forget them even as they have ignored His Presence in His day. Such is His decree unto those that have denied Him, and such will it be unto them that have rejected His signs.
We conclude Our argument with His words—exalted is He—“And whoso shall withdraw from the remembrance of the Merciful, We will chain a Satan unto him, and he shall be his fast companion.” “And whoso turneth away from My remembrance, truly his shall be a life of misery.” Thus hath it been revealed aforetime, were ye to comprehend.
Revealed by the “Bá’” and the “Há’.” Peace be upon him that inclineth his ear unto the melody of the Mystic Bird calling from the Sadratu’l-Muntahá!
Glorified be our Lord, the Most High!"
Revealed by Baha'u'llah 9 years after receiving His first Message from God, fulfilling in another way a prophecy of the Bab about the year 9.
3) Then one shall have to demonstrate the system of Iqan with examples, please.
The entire book proves the system of progressive revelation, Baha'u'llah has offered all this thought;
"This is the Day in which the testimony of the Lord hath been fulfilled, the Day in which the Word of God hath been made manifest, and His evidence firmly established. His voice is calling you unto that which shall profit you, and enjoineth you to observe that which shall draw you nigh unto God, the Lord of Revelation." — Bahá’u’lláh
RegardsTony
That is your perception. I am happy for you to perceive it how you choose to.
Baha'u'llah gave Abdul'Baha the Authority to explain the Message of Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha gave us the 'Tablet of the Universe'.
I leave it to you to decide if this can be classed as Cosmology - Tablet of the Universe
I see the whole Message as a Philosophical cosmology.
Regards Tony
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I will presently concentrate on Iqan. If Iqan is proved to be a Direct Converse/ Word of Revelation by/from G-d on Bahaullah only then I intend to read some other book. So far I have not found applying the same paradigm as adopted by me in my post #401 for Quran:
Quote.
- "Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." " (friend @Muffled)
- Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
- Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad.
- Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one.
- I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?
- "یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ " translated in English with the words "O Messenger" is another style, please refer my post #243 .
- "وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی "/ "If only thou couldst see" as mentioned in post #255.
- Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] "فَاَعۡرِضۡ" , "وَ انۡتَظِرۡ" So turn away from them, and wait #261. - Unquote
Will one ,please?
Is it impossible to do, please?
Regards
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Thanks for the above.
Is it mentioned by Bahaullah with this detail in his core religious books Iqan and or Aqdas?
If not, why not, please?
Regards
What does Baha’u’llah have to do with the water cycle?
That is our choice paarsurrey.
I also see you concentrate on the Kitab-i-iqan, as if you were to pick up other works of Baha'u'llah after His Declaration, you would just be making arguments against the Quran. the Kitab-i-iqan is unquie that it proves all Messengers past and gives the keys not to reject what was about to come.
All the works of the Bab reflect the Quran and that is what Baha'u'llah was explaining, from God, in the Kitab -i-iqan.
It really is an impossible argument
as your argument is really with God, you are asking if God gave the Kitab-i-iqan.I have my answer, you choose your path.
Regards Tony
The Kitab-i-iqan explains the spiritual cycles in full detail, likewise these explanation find their way into the material world and will find an explanation in nature. Nature contains all the spiritual metaphor.
So if we look at one aspect from the link provided - "Water continually evaporates, condenses, and precipitates, and on a global basis" - That is part of the Message of the Kitab-i-iqan, about our spiritual reality.
God provides the Messenger, the Rain of knowledge for all humanity, over time this water of knowledge evaporates and condenses in the heavens as the earth becomes parched and in need of more rain inevitable bringing about the precipitation in a New Message, bringing life back to a parched land.
Regards Tony
Personally I think it would be silly for God to include common knowledge in a religious text.
Humans have vast volumes of common knowledge. If God were to include all that common knowledge in a text the central theme of living a virtuous life would be lost in all that non-relevant redundant repetition.
Additionally, that level of detail of knowledge of the water cycle does not appear in the Quran to my knowledge anyway. For example show me that diagram in the Quran, I know you cannot do it.
Finally in the ancient world the Quran was written in clouds appear to have been considered pieces of the sky.
52:44
Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Yes, the sensible people would not search/research for common science knowledge in a religious book. I agree with it.
Science is a tool of exploring Nature/Universe, only because it has systems.
Quran is book of systems which pertain to its purpose to provide guidance in moral and spiritual domains to the humans, so its systems have to be different.
Thanks and regards friend!
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Medical research is improving daily. Hope you got what I mean by system and life. I assume you're relating system to god's pattern for life. Since humans make pattern to survive but in itself (nature/universe) doesn't have one they are not related to the Quran.
They both have their different perspectives god as system and life spontaneity without one.
Thanks.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"Hope you got what I mean by system and life. I assume you're relating system to god's pattern for life."
Sorry Sir, I didn't mean that exactly. But one mentioned a touchy matter. I could just pray and do well wishing.
Please give some other example.
We humans invent things and it is our utmost endeavor that the things become automatic as much as possible. We go from manual to semi-automatic to automatic. Right, please?
Regards