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Is there a Religion that predates Animism?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
I imagine the concept that would eventually lead to religion first arose when man initially became curious as to his origin. He looked at the world around him, wondered at it as well as his place in it, and he suddenly saw god(s) all around him.
As to the first religion, I would assume it is something akin to our modern concept of polytheistic paganism.
As to the first religion, I would assume it is something akin to our modern concept of polytheistic paganism.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Animism predates Paganism.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
You are correct. I suppose polytheistic paganism arose from animism.
"Animism" is not a religion, if that's what you're saying.
Jonathan Ainsley Bain
Logical Positivist
In the beginning was God.
This would have been before there was a material universe.
So the first religion would have to have been Pure Monotheism.
But of course, aTheists read it in a book that we are the product of atoms
bouncing off one another. So for them, the first religion would have been nihilist Chemistry.
For agnostics, the first religion would have to have been philosophy.
So we may take this 3rd option to be most interesting -
- because God himself at the start of the universe is technically not
really going to be a 'believer' in himself. The first non-God beings,
must have had a first moment of:
'How did all this happen?, perhaps God, perhaps nothing made it?'
So yes,
a good answer would be: philosophy.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
Animism (from Latin anima, "breath, spirit, life")[1][2] is the religious belief that....
Animism - Wikipedia
Spiderman
Veteran Member
That depends on who you ask and what article you read.
Well does the OP mean "what is the first religious belief" or does the OP meaning what they typed "what is the first religion"??
Do you mean "religion" or "religious belief"??
Because animism in and of itself is not a religion, but it is a religious belief. It is a component of a religion.
Otherwise I could say the first religion was "theism" and leave it at that.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Fine! Religious beliefs!Well does the OP mean "what is the first religious belief" or does the OP meaning what they typed "what is the first religion"??
Do you mean "religion" or "religious belief"??
Because animism in and of itself is not a religion, but it is a religious belief. It is a component of a religion.
Otherwise I could say the first religion was "theism" and leave it at that.
Fine! Religious beliefs!
Ah, well in that case the first religious belief we have concrete archaeological evidence of is funerary rites and traditions.
I wouldn't put too much stock in a simplistic definition of animism that articulates it as "religious beliefs." I don't know of any cases where animism is merely a set of beliefs. Embracing the idea that "people" means more than "humans" has significant ramifications for how a culture behaves. It comes with rituals, traditions, stories - things that impact a peoples entire way of life - and that squarely puts it in the realm of religion.
That said, it's worth remembering that when we call something "a religion" it implies a singularity that is rarely true, and is particularly untrue in this case. If we understand animism to be within the sphere of religion, animism is many religions that, for the most part, are not or were not named. The very idea of "religion" being some separate sphere from one's way of life or culture is a somewhat Western idea anyway. For indigenous cultures, treating non-humans as persons is simply the way of things.
In the Vedanta system, Brahma been 'awake' for 155,521,972,949,119 (155 trillion) years which is way way longer than the universe has existed.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
There's no way to tell, although we do know that some Neanderthals were practitioners of animism because of what we find in their burial sites.
But there also is some evidence that they were following the motions of the heavens also to at least a certain extent as a bone with what appears to be markings representing the waning and waxing of the moon was marked on it.
I believe the concept 'animism' was used very early before true religions formed to indicate a belief in powers of an 'other' worldly, or supernatural nature, initially as spirits..... such as wind and rain spirits that animated the elements, eventually becoming more powerful as the power behind storms and larger events. One history said that Yahweh was originally a storm god from somewhere in Arabia. And dreams and hallucinations and visions would convince people of primitive intelligence that there were supernatural events occurring, that gods and goddesses were directing events. Early religion was the 'glue' that held the group together, a common heritage that identified each member of the group to any outsider. And when groups conquered others and made larger groups, their god became even more powerful and more widely known. You get the sense of the competition of religions from the Old Testament, which talks about 'other gods'..... and immediately I'm thinking "well, where did the 'other' gods come from?"
Liu
Well-Known Member
Why is it so often assumed that animism was the first religious concept? It would go back to a time before written history, so how could one tell that this is what people believed in?
The oldest written texts I know of that contain hints on religion are polytheistic or henotheistic.
The oldest written texts I know of that contain hints on religion are polytheistic or henotheistic.
That's actually not supported by the research. God's controlling the forces of nature came much later after animism or the magic stage. To answer the OP, there is nothing before animism. You can refer to the work of Jean Gebser and his structures of human consciousness to understand more about this. From the Magic Stage:
Around some unspecified time far back in our past, a change took place. Man entered into a second phase of development and gained a new structure of consciousness, the Magical structure. This structure is characterized by five primary characteristics: (1) its egolessness, (2) its spacelessness and timelessness, (3) its pointlike-unitary world, (4) its interweaving with nature, and (5) its magical reaction to the world.[9] A rudimentary self- sense was emerging and language is the real product of this change. Words as vehicles of power are typical of this time and structure; incantations as precursors to prayer emerged. Consciousness, in this phase, is characterized by man's intimate association with nature.
This is perhaps the most notable characteristic regarding this structure. Man, at this time, does not really distinguish himself apart from nature. He is a part of all that surrounds him; in the earliest stages it is hard to conceive that he views himself apart from his environment. The plants, animals and other elements of his surroundings share the same fate as he does; they experience in a similar manner. Latency is still dominant; little is transparent. Magic we can define in agreement with Gustav Meyrink as doing without knowing,[10] and it is magic man who is engaged in this activity in all aspects of his existence. The hunting and gathering, the quest for survival are all activities that consume most of his waking hours. But in the quiet of the evening around the fire; there is time for reflection of sorts. The activities of the day were codified (in speech) and recounted. Memory was collective, tribal, and all things were shared and experienced by all. The "I" is not a factor; the "we" is dominant.
This is a one-dimensional, pre-perspectival, point-like existence that occurs in a dream- like state. Unlike the dreamlessness of the previous structure, a recognition is developing in man that he is something different from that around him. Not fully awake to who he is or what his role in the world is, man is recognizing his self as an entity. The forms of expression for this structure can be found in the art and other artifacts that have been recovered from this time. Graven images and idols are what first come to mind. However, ritual should also be considered here, for it is in the specific and directed execution of certain actions and gestures that conveys much about this consciousness structure. Feuerstein feels that this structure persisted till around 40,000 BC and the advent of the Cro-Magnons.
God's controlling the forces of nature come in at the next stage of our evolution as a species in the Mythic structure of consciousness. What the mythic stage does is it takes the magic of the the early stage, where everything is connected to an controlled by you via invisible strings attached to you, and move that magic to an external being. This is where polytheism comes in, then much later monotheism. This is perhaps the most notable characteristic regarding this structure. Man, at this time, does not really distinguish himself apart from nature. He is a part of all that surrounds him; in the earliest stages it is hard to conceive that he views himself apart from his environment. The plants, animals and other elements of his surroundings share the same fate as he does; they experience in a similar manner. Latency is still dominant; little is transparent. Magic we can define in agreement with Gustav Meyrink as doing without knowing,[10] and it is magic man who is engaged in this activity in all aspects of his existence. The hunting and gathering, the quest for survival are all activities that consume most of his waking hours. But in the quiet of the evening around the fire; there is time for reflection of sorts. The activities of the day were codified (in speech) and recounted. Memory was collective, tribal, and all things were shared and experienced by all. The "I" is not a factor; the "we" is dominant.
This is a one-dimensional, pre-perspectival, point-like existence that occurs in a dream- like state. Unlike the dreamlessness of the previous structure, a recognition is developing in man that he is something different from that around him. Not fully awake to who he is or what his role in the world is, man is recognizing his self as an entity. The forms of expression for this structure can be found in the art and other artifacts that have been recovered from this time. Graven images and idols are what first come to mind. However, ritual should also be considered here, for it is in the specific and directed execution of certain actions and gestures that conveys much about this consciousness structure. Feuerstein feels that this structure persisted till around 40,000 BC and the advent of the Cro-Magnons.
You can read more about these here: AN OVERVIEW OF THE WORK OF JEAN GEBSER
Liu
Well-Known Member
Lovely. But what kinda sources did this author use, besides his imagination and cliches he inherited from his own culture?