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Featured Is there a religion that isn't a Deen?

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Remté, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    "Islam is not only a religion but also a Deen, which means a complete code of life. Religion deals man's relation with God whereas Deen deals with both with man's relation with God and his fellow beings. Religion deals with private affairs of life whereas Deen covers all aspect of life, individual as well as collective....."

    Deen vs Religion | Islamic Studies, CSS Notes, Topic-3
     
  2. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Aren't there many religions in the world which also deal quite a lot with people's conduct towards each other and put out rules and guidelines for many, many aspects of people's lives?
     
  3. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    I dont know every religion there is, but in my own experience, when practicing a religion very seriously the teaching become a part of you, so in this sense the religion become a part of every aspect of life
     
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  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Most religions aren't deens in the Muslim sense of the term as they lack the scripturally based politico-legal aspects of Islam.

    For example, Christianity differentiates between the sacred and profane (render unto Caesar..) in a manner Islam doesn't. Judaism might be closer to a deen, but I don't know enough to say anything much.

    For many pagan and animist religions they don't have the scriptural traditions on which to make broad prescriptive judgements on socio-religious norms, even though the sacred might permeate every aspect of society.

    Hinduism is too diverse a collection of traditions to be a deen in the Islamic sense.

    Religious terms (even the term religion itself) don't translate readily between different belief systems and trying to do so often requires forcing a square peg into a round hole.
     
    #4 Augustus, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  5. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Hinduism is a way of life for most of its practitioners. But there are almost as many ways as there are practitioners. Hinduism also deals with relationships between all forms of life, as all forms of life are widely considered aspects of the one Divine. But it also considers that relationships are multi-faceted and many many legitimate expressions are possible. So, in all cases, instead of a code, we have a pallette.
     
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  6. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    How much does Hinduism offer legal/political prescriptions for organising society?
     
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Yes. There's a saying that's common in many (though definitely not all) Protestant Christian denominations that captures their outlook:

    In the essentials, unity
    In non-essentials, liberty
    In all things, charity


    IOW, they think that the only things that a religion should dictate are the things that God has explicitly commanded, which they consider to only be a small number of critical things... certainly not "all aspects of life."
     
  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I see a difference between what @Remté described and what you describe.

    The major feature I see of a "code for all aspects of life" as part of a religion is that it isn't just a matter of one person following what they consider to be God's will or the best expression of the teachings of their religion; I think that when we talk about a "code," we're talking about something that one member of the religion can use to judge another member of the religion.
     
  9. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Catholicism is not a deen. I hate deens.

    In Catholicism, the human conscience supersedes everything, so basically, we live how we feel we should live on an individual basis.
     
  10. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    I know it is very comon in religion to judge others belief as wrong. but actually those who follow a religious teaching should never judge others. (i know i have not been always good on not judging others, so i am not a example how to not judge) But what is important in religious ractice is to try to become better then what one was before.
     
  11. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Then you disagree with the idea of a religious code of practice for a group of believers as a collective (i.e. what the OP described).
     
  12. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    The only code i would say is within religious life is the moral code. Unfortunatly not everyne who callthem self religious do follow the moral code or teaching and they do wrong doing. And as i said in my other answer, i have done my share of wrong doing, But trying to learn from it when i do get it wrong.
     
  13. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I've learned to avoid religion on rails. Sure custom, tradition, a way of religious life, can have its beauty and charm yeah. A life of piety can provide some stability.

    However I don't see it as always serving well in terms of practicality and direction over the course of time where a person would need to make a decision in face of dynamics and change to either resist or go with the flow.
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Those are interesting definitions both for "Deen" and "Religion", mainly because both are nearly useless and do not acknowledge that.

    "God" is much too personal an idea for a doctrine for dealing with it to have much of an actual meaning. Therefore, that definition of religion is meaningless and ought to acknowledge that.

    This "Deen" that he speaks of is actually much closer to an actual definition of religion proper, albeit one heavily tainted with a monotheist bias. It seems to me that right there we have a strong clue of why most people who leave Islaam seem to end up rejecting also religion itself and even theism.
     
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Unfortunately, the site that's linked to in the OP doesn't allow copying, so it's difficult for me to quote from it, but it talks about not just a moral code, but an all-encompassing economic system, political system, and social framework.
     
  16. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    I have to answer from a personal point of view, because their might be other buddhist who see it different then i do. But personally i dont mix my religious life with economics or politics.
     
    #16 Amanaki, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  17. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    You think so? Do you some kind of statistical evidence of it?
     
  18. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    The whole point of a "Deen," as @Remté is describing it, is that the majority religion of your country gets mixed with your economics and politics.
     
  19. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    ah ok imust have misunderstood :) thank you fro clearify it to me :)
     
  20. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    No. I just take religion seriously and have a measure of respect towards theism despite not having much of a personal interest in it.

    Edited to add: oh, wait, you meant to ask about the statistics of leavers of Islaam, did you not?

    It is such a well consolidated understanding to me that I failed to realize that one might want to ask about that. Sorry.

    In any case, reliable statistics are difficult to find, mainly because it is dangerous for ex-Muslims to be overt about their so-called apostasy.
     
    #20 LuisDantas, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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