Is there a Heaven?

[blueman]

I haven't taken anything out of context. Faith without works is dead! We cannot claim faith in Christ unless we are willing to show by our faithfulness to Christ that we are sincere. The two are intrinsically linked. Furthermore, I have never said (nor do I believe) that our works will get us into Heaven. If, by the word "salvation," you mean "redemption," then I agree with you 100%. All will receive this gift through the grace of Jesus Christ and by nothing they can do. If, however, you are using the word "salvation" as a synonym for "sanctification," then I disagree. The glory we attain to in the next life is, however, contingent upon our obedience to Christ's commandments in this life. There is no denying it.

Kathryn

I never disagreed with you in regards to faith without works is dead, but thought you meant it in the context of salvation. We have some philosophical differences in regards to baptism being a requirement of salvation though. In 1 Conrithians, 1:17, Paul stressed I am not hear to baptize, but to spread the gospel. In addition, if baptism was a requirement for salvation, why would this not apply to the thief/murderer who was on the cross beside Jesus and asked the Him (because he believed through faith that Jesus was the Son of God) to remember him when He gets to heaven. Jesus said from this day forward you will be with me in paradise, absent from being immersed in any water. We as believers are baptized because we are being obedient to God's commandment and it is an outward reflection of our unity and new relationship with Jesus Christ. It is not a requirement for salvation. May God continue to bless you.

 

[Pussyfoot Mouse]

I'm not sure whether you're addressing your question to me or to Chuck. In my opinion, baptism is a saving ordinance required by God. So, yes, God would know, and yes, He's the only one whose opinion matters anyway. I know that when I got baptized, I didn't do it as a public display of my repentence or anything else. I did it to symbolize my relationship with my Savior and my obedience to God's will. While there were people there who witnessed it, their presence was entirely beside the point.

Hi Katzpur,

And thank you for your input. I am agreeing with you totally. I can't believe that any religious ceremony that doesn't have witnesses would not be considered "legitimate". How could this be? When God would surely be considered the greatest witness of all, would He not?

 

[DeepShadow]

Hey its a mormon, I never met one of you before nice to meet you

And now you've met two! Wat a sec, did you respond here before or after you met me on the "DNA Controversy" thread? Oh, well, we've met now.

I'm reminded of a baptism I performed for a friend of the family, a little girl who had just turned nine and asked for baptism. Because of scheduling constraints, her baptismal service was done jointly with another little girl, whose family provided the prayers, talks (speeches) and other things.

For whatever reason--probably inexperience and overexcitement--the speakers and others addressed left out any mention of my friend, directing all their comments to the other little girl. This, combined with the conspicuous absence of any family or friends besides myself, moved me to tears with the realization that no one seemed to notice this sacred act of faith.

I had barely formed the thought when I felt the Spirit telling me how wrong I was. Who was this baptism for, anyway? Was it for the praise of men? My nine-year-old friend knew who she was making her commitment to, and He was the only witness she needed.:162:

 

[Pussyfoot Mouse]

And now you've met two! Wat a sec, did you respond here before or after you met me on the "DNA Controversy" thread? Oh, well, we've met now.

I'm reminded of a baptism I performed for a friend of the family, a little girl who had just turned nine and asked for baptism. Because of scheduling constraints, her baptismal service was done jointly with another little girl, whose family provided the prayers, talks (speeches) and other things.

For whatever reason--probably inexperience and overexcitement--the speakers and others addressed left out any mention of my friend, directing all their comments to the other little girl. This, combined with the conspicuous absence of any family or friends besides myself, moved me to tears with the realization that no one seemed to notice this sacred act of faith.

I had barely formed the thought when I felt the Spirit telling me how wrong I was. Who was this baptism for, anyway? Was it for the praise of men? My nine-year-old friend knew who she was making her commitment to, and He was the only witness she needed.:162:

DeepShadow, I am so touched and so moved by this story. Your little friend must be so proud of the decision she made in her young life. As an adult, I am so confused about the religious faith I was born into. And here is a young lamb who has made her decision all on her. I must say to your young friend "Little Lamb, stand tall and be proud". :162:

PFM

 

[chuck010342]

And now you've met two! Wat a sec, did you respond here before or after you met me on the "DNA Controversy" thread? Oh, well, we've met now.

I'm reminded of a baptism I performed for a friend of the family, a little girl who had just turned nine and asked for baptism. Because of scheduling constraints, her baptismal service was done jointly with another little girl, whose family provided the prayers, talks (speeches) and other things.

For whatever reason--probably inexperience and overexcitement--the speakers and others addressed left out any mention of my friend, directing all their comments to the other little girl. This, combined with the conspicuous absence of any family or friends besides myself, moved me to tears with the realization that no one seemed to notice this sacred act of faith.

I had barely formed the thought when I felt the Spirit telling me how wrong I was. Who was this baptism for, anyway? Was it for the praise of men? My nine-year-old friend knew who she was making her commitment to, and He was the only witness she needed.:162:

If you want to be Water baptised Go ahead, All I am saying is that Water Batism is not Required to recieve eternal life (batism from the spirit is)

 

[Pussyfoot Mouse]

If you want to be Water baptised Go ahead, All I am saying is that Water Batism is not Required to recieve eternal life (batism from the spirit is)

Hi Chuck, I'm not sure I understand what the difference is between a water baptism and a spirit baptism. Can you please explain this?

Thanks...PFM

 

[blueman]

Hi Chuck, I'm not sure I understand what the difference is between a water baptism and a spirit baptism. Can you please explain this?

Thanks...PFM

A water baptism is the symbolism of the old man being cruxified and cleansed and the new man resurrecting with a new life and relationship through Christ. It is a phsyical representation of this fact. A spiritual baptism is when your spirit-man receives the Holy Spirit when you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour. Your Spririt has been transformed through confession of sin and acceptance of Christ through faith (Romans 10:9, 10). When God created you, your person is made up of a physical flesh, an inner flesh (inner nature), a mind, will, emotions, soul and spirit, in addition to your senses (taste, touch, smell, hearing, sight). That is your makeup, but since we were bron in sin, our spirit needs a renewal. The only way that renewal takes place is through salvation and receipt of the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus stated would dwell and be our Comforter whom would be sent to be with us after He left this earth as a physical presence and ascended to be with the Father.

 

[chuck010342]

A water baptism is the symbolism of the old man being cruxified and cleansed and the new man resurrecting with a new life and relationship through Christ. It is a phsyical representation of this fact. A spiritual baptism is when your spirit-man receives the Holy Spirit when you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour. Your Spririt has been transformed through confession of sin and acceptance of Christ through faith (Romans 10:9, 10). When God created you, your person is made up of a physical flesh, an inner flesh (inner nature), a mind, will, emotions, soul and spirit, in addition to your senses (taste, touch, smell, hearing, sight). That is your makeup, but since we were bron in sin, our spirit needs a renewal. The only way that renewal takes place is through salvation and receipt of the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus stated would dwell and be our Comforter whom would be sent to be with us after He left this earth as a physical presence and ascended to be with the Father.

what he said.