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Featured Is there a benefit to theism?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jeremiahcp, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    This is the other side of the coin to my other thread: Is there a benefit to atheism?

    Does theism offer any benefits that non-believers are not privy to? If you think so or don't think so, please explain.
     
  2. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Not really.

    Theism or atheism are really only parts of a much larger worldview and can't be isolated and abstracted from this larger context.
     
  3. Carlita

    Carlita Blessings from Buddha Vajrasattva of purification

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    Security without possible reservations or complications.

    The permission to have a sense of continuity without needing to know why

    Sense of purpose promised to the theist rather than purpose uncertain to the atheist
     
  4. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    I have never believed in any god and I have no doubts at all about my purpose. I am not sure what you mean by the other two you'll have to expound.
     
  5. Carlita

    Carlita Blessings from Buddha Vajrasattva of purification

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    Life is uncertain. Many atheist knows this. The benefit of a theist is to be certain what an atheist is uncertain about. The theist has an illusion of things knowing the unknown when the atheist knows that isn't the case-life doesn't work that way.

    So purpose is in the uncertain nature of the world. Once you claim certainty in purpose, it's like theist claiming certainty on god. Many atheists understand this. Therefore, purpose is ever changing. Not set in stone.

    Edit

    Also, the purpose promised to the theist means the theist has a promise of purpose/certainty of one's goal. While many atheist do not need this promise and know life is uncertain. That doesn't invalidate having a purpose. It just means it's not promised to the atheist; thereby, a disbenefit from the theist point of view.
     
  6. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    I have known theist that are uncertain about a great deal of things including the purpose of life and even belief in God himself. Even Soren Kierkegaard writes about uncertainty in religious faith instead of certainly; that is faith with uncertainty. I have also seen atheists who are dead certain about the purpose of life and about the non-existence of gods. So I think you need to just talk plainly and be more specific.
     
  7. osgart

    osgart Active Member

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    ye olde atheist vs. theist debate is the most boring, dull debate ever. atheists just like to trample on an easy target of blatant fallacy.

    I prefer naturalism vs. intelligent cause in evolution.

    materialists vs. metaphysics is a good debate as well.

    and yet in all three debate topics each side is eager to destroy the other, and each side infers things radically different.

    you could utter the word logic, and it's a totally different meaning to each side.
     
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  8. Politesse

    Politesse Amor Vincit Omnia

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    No. Theism and atheism are interesting points to ponder and discuss, but they have no bearing on one's success in life; or at least, only is one's society decides that they should. There are, for instance, obvious benefits to being known as a theist in a heavily Catholic village, or atheist on a Western university campus. But these benefits come from the perceptions of others, and could be keyed to any trait. I do think that some philosophies and religious orientations come with virtues and benefits specific to themselves. But there's nothing inherently beneficial to any particular side of this dichotomy; to understand how a philosophical school or religious community does those things which it excels at explaining or helping with, which I think would have to be discussed in more specific terms than "theist" and "atheist".
     
  9. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Yes: religious communities (e.g. churches) are often great places for networking and the development of business contacts. In some cases, the religious community is the main place in a town where business connections get made.

    ... and generally, one of the requirements for membership in these religious communities is theism.

    Another example: one of the requirements for membership in the Freemasons is theism, so if you're a man who likes the sort of experience that the Masons provides, theism is beneficial.

    Also, religious communities also provide social support for their members (e.g. food banks, emergency housing in cases of disaster, connection to the outside world for "shut-ins") to their members, and often, theism is a requirement to be a member.
     
  10. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me, or is there at least a hint of bias in this post?
     
  11. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Oh brother, a hint of bias, after the flood of bias from the atheists!!
     
  12. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I'll go with 'yes', but not so much theism in itself but that it is typically part and parcel of an expanded view of what we are; more than just matter following natural laws. This gives believers an expanded positive view of their consciousness and its continuation after death into greater experiences beyond the physical realm.
     
  13. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    Religious communities are not blocked off to atheists. They can join and participate in them as well.
     
  14. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "the advantage of atheism is you have this smug sense of superiority that you are the centre of the Universe and no one is above you."


    So what you are saying, is that atheist are egotistical enough to believe they have the most powerful being in the universe helping them through each day.
     
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  15. Carlita

    Carlita Blessings from Buddha Vajrasattva of purification

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    Have you ever heard theist (not agnostic or far in between) be uncertain about god's existence and his/her/their role in that theist's life?

    The difference between atheism and theist is theist belief in god. So god gives a theist a specific certainty and purpose(s) about life to which he believes in god to know what that theist does not know about life.

    The atheist doesn't have the specific certainty and purpose in life based on god because he doesn't believe in one. Therefore, regardless of how strong and what his purpose is, the benefit to theism is that he will always be uncertain when for many theist god offer's certainty.

    Many theist (since Pagans and Hindu and theists too) but not all believe god answers the rest of what they are not certain about.

    Compared to an theist, atheist does not have that advantage. Whether that's important or not isn't your question. You just asked what the benefit of theism is.

    God offers security in life that a theist would not know or have without him.

    God offers a sense of purpose because "god" fills in the blank of what the theist doesn't know about life.

    I am an atheist. Whether or not we have this, how, or why isn't the point. You asked the benefits of theism not compare the benefits of theism to atheism and debate which is correct.






    (you asked what benefits theism not what's right or wrong)
     
  16. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "Have you ever heard theist (not agnostic or far in between) be uncertain about god's existence and his/her/their role in that theist's life?"

    Yes, yes I have. Doubt in God is a real thing that exist amongst theists. In fact I would say that any theist that has never doubted God is either incredibly stupid or is lying.

    "The atheist doesn't have the specific certainty and purpose in life based on god because he doesn't believe in one. Therefore, regardless of how strong and what his purpose is, the benefit to theism is that he will always be uncertain when for many theist god offer's certainty."

    I know an atheist who is absolutely convinced that fate exist and that everything happens for a reason. And as I have already told you I am very certain of my purpose in life, and have no doubts of it. I think you want this to be true, but it just does not reflect reality, atheist can have the same type of arrogant certainty that theist can. They are no different in this respects.
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Depends on the community, but in my experience, an invitation to guests is usually meant as a way to bring in prospects. At a certain point, they expect the prospect to officially join to keep participating.

    They'd also, IMO, look with suspicion at someone who attends church for the networking opportunities but doesn't actually make a declaration of faith and join the congregation.

    Or are you going more for an "atheists can get around the requirement for theism by lying about their beliefs" angle?
     
  18. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "Or are you going more for an "atheists can get around the requirement for theism by lying about their beliefs" angle?"


    I have little doubt that a certain percentage of people in religious circles are already lying about their atheism. The fact is these religious communities are not exclusive to just theist, and many of them probably already have a number of atheists and agnostics in them. Also the benefits provided by the communities is not something that is privy to only those communities.
     
  19. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Donald Trump is an atheist, otherwise he'd be fully aware that he's going straight to hell!!
     
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  20. Carlita

    Carlita Blessings from Buddha Vajrasattva of purification

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    Not agnostic or anything like that. Someone who does not believe in god. Not doubt. Literally does not believe in god with absolute certainty.

    I've only met one and I am one of them. A lot of atheist have a grudge on christianity so it doesn't seem like disbelief in god but more not wanting to believe or doubt, as you said. Atheism isn't doubting god. It's no believe in his existence.

    But, yeah, I know many people here that never doubt god because their experiences and worship is so real life that that's like a mother denying or doubting she had a child when she was in the delivery rum pushing and screaming. Their not stupid or lying.

    The atheist certainty is not dependent on god; a theist certainty is.

    The benefits of theism is that, as I said above, god (knows everything-he is the certainty) to which those who are not agnostic trust god to fill in the gaps they do not know.

    This gives them security and a sense of purpose.

    An atheist doesn't have that based on god. In theism, that is a disadvantage.

    Has nothing to do with what the atheist believe. You asked for benefits not which is right or wrong.
     
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