Is the universe orderly?

[`mud]

I think he was 1025 units short,
but who's counting !
~
'mud

 

[McBell]

There are no known variables for God.

So you cannot say that gods existence is probable, let alone that god did anything, let alone create the universe?

And you do not see any problems with that?

The natural world is well known in comparison. Yes I will do provide a link, even though its a well known story in science as well as popular reads. Try this one;

Roger Penrose, The Emperor’s New Mind,; Michael Denton, Nature’s Destiny, The New York: The Free Press Books Collection/Penrose...

Use a search engine to find The Emperor’s New Mind in PDF then Go to page nine Mes....It describes the methods and math used.

in the meantime here is a review of Penrose's material I found while searching for your link.


The Mathematics of Probability Refutes “Coincidence”
What has been said so far shows the extraordinary balances among the forces that make human life possible in this universe. The speed of the Big Bang’s explosion, the values of the four fundamental forces, and all the other variables that we will be examining in the chapters ahead and which are vital for existence have been arranged according to an extraordinary precision.

Let us now make a brief digression and consider the coincidence theory of materialism. Coincidence is a mathematical term and the possibility of an event’s occurrence can be calculated using the mathematics of probability. Let’s do so.

THE PROBABILITY OF THE OCCURRENCE OF A UNIVERSE IN WHICH LIFE CAN FORM

The calculations of British mathematician Roger Penrose show that the probability of universe conducive to life occurring by chance is in 1010123. The phrase “extremely unlikely” is inadequate to describe this possibility.

10100000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000

Taking the physical variables into account, what is the likelihood of a universe giving us life coming into existence by coincidence? One in billions of billions? Or trillions of trillions of trillions? Or more?

Roger Penrose, a famous British mathematician and a close friend of Stephen Hawking, wondered about this question and tried to calculate the probability. Including what he considered to be all variables required for human beings to exist and live on a planet such as ours, he computed the probability of this environment occurring among all the possible results of the Big Bang.

According to Penrose, the odds against such an occurrence were on the order of 1010123 to 1.

It is hard even to imagine what this number means. In math, the value 10123 means 1 followed by 123 zeros. (This is, by the way, more than the total number of atoms 1078 believed to exist in the whole universe.) But Penrose’s answer is vastly more than this: It requires 1 followed by 10123 zeros.

Or consider: 103 means 1,000, a thousand. 10103 is a number that that has 1 followed by 1000 zeros. If there are six zeros, it’s called a million; if nine, a billion; if twelve, a trillion and so on. There is not even a name for a number that has 1 followed by 10123 zeros.

In practical terms, in mathematics, a probability of 1 in 1050 means “zero probability”. Penrose’s number is more than trillion trillion trillion times less than that. In short, Penrose’s number tellsus that the ‘accidental” or “coincidental” Creation of our universe is an impossibility.

Concerning this mind-boggling number Roger Penrose comments:

This now tells how precise the Creator’s aim must have been, namely to an accuracy of one part in 1010123. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full in the ordinary denary notation: it would be 1 followed by 10123 successive 0’s. Even if we were to write a 0 on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe–and we could throw in all the other particles for good measure–we should fall far short of writing down the figure needed.26



~

I thought you meant where he showed his work, you know, like in school when you have to show your work...

All that is is him claiming this number and that number.
It does not show his work, does not explain how he arrived at the numbers he used.....

 

[viole]

(2) I reject the MWI for lack of evidence and

And I guess you accept the conscious fine tuner alternative because of its overwhelming evidence, right? Or is that because the declarations of scientists that other Universes are maybe not possible to be observed, then, magically, equally not observable theories become superior or more plausible?

You see: I am not proving here that the Multiverse disproves God; what I am showing is that the FTA does not prove it, for it has very simple naturalistic alternatives which have, at worst, the same evidence, falsifiability or whatever.

And the multiverse is just one of the many alternatives that my imagination can conceive that do not present intentionality. And al those alternatives will be as good as yours, at least in terms of evidence and falsifiability.

So, what you are doing here is special pleading.

In other words: the FTA is not an argument that can lead to any necessary conclusions that have theological relevance. Therefore, it is useless. Even if God existed.

Ciao

- viole

 

[jonathan180iq]

Found it, thanks for pointing out my error.

Awesome. I'll come back to this later today.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is the universe orderly?

It is orderly where-ever G-d wanted it to be orderly, and where-ever He wanted it not to be yet orderly for the human beings, it does not seem to them to be orderly.
G-d does everything as he wants in an unblemished way. Right?
Should I quote from G-d? Please feel free but reasonable.
Regards

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Is the universe orderly?
It is orderly where-ever G-d wanted to be orderly, and where-ever He wanted it not to be yet orderly for the human being, it does not seem to them to be orderly.

In four billion years our galaxy is going to collide with the Andromeda galaxy, which I don't think will be very "orderly". It isn't covered by my household insurance unfortunately.

 

[`mud]

Damn.......another lousy collision....who's going to clean that up !!
~
'mud

 

[Desert Snake]

In four billion years our galaxy is going to collide with the Andromeda galaxy, which I don't think will be very "orderly". It isn't covered by my household insurance unfortunately.

people have enough issues getting what happened four weeks ago correct, i would start working on that spaceship/warpdrive.


hail Caesar

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Damn.......another lousy collision....who's going to clean that up !!
~
'mud

It might be covered by God's insurance I suppose. Or maybe he could call Mr. Wolf to sort things out.

 

[`mud]

Now...... that's a stretch !
~
'mud

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Now...... that's a stretch !

I don't know, it's possible that God has a fixer like Mr. Wolf. Though Mr. Wolf must be on a long holiday, given the complete lack of anything being fixed over the last 2000 years.

 

[`mud]

I'll add to the list of: "What was fixed ?"
You got that date right ?
And I'm not having a stroke...I think !
I might be a little .....
~
Orderly is it ?
Bumper cars at the fair on Sunday.
~
And now about that date !
~
'mud

 

[paarsurrey]

Is the universe orderly?

It is the flip side of being chaotic or being chaotic is the flip side of being orderly. Like North Pole and the South Pole. One cannot have one, if one tries to finish North Pole one has to finish both, the North Pole and the South Pole. Right? Please

Regards

 

[Onyx]

Is the universe orderly?

The universe exhibits a wide spectrum of phenomena that run the gamut between "orderly" and "chaotic" - a continuum rather than a dichotomy.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is the universe orderly?

"In this physical world there is no real chaos; all is in fact orderly; all is ordered by the physical principles. Chaos is but unperceived order- it is a word indicating the limitations of the human mind and the paucity of observational facts. The words “chaos,” “accidental,” “chance,” “unpredictable," are conveniences behind which we hide our ignorance."

— Harlow Shapley*
From Of Stars and Men: The Human Response to an Expanding Universe (1958 Rev. Ed. 1964), Foreword.

Please
Regards

 

[Milton Platt]

What does the science say about it?
Please quote from a text book of science and or from a peer reviewed article in a reputed journal of science in support of your opinion.
Regards

The universe behaves according to the natural laws. I would consider that orderly, or at least ordered, as both ordered and seemingly disorderly things can occur within those parameters.

 

[McBell]

Is the universe orderly?

"In this physical world there is no real chaos; all is in fact orderly; all is ordered by the physical principles. Chaos is but unperceived order- it is a word indicating the limitations of the human mind and the paucity of observational facts. The words “chaos,” “accidental,” “chance,” “unpredictable," are conveniences behind which we hide our ignorance."

— Harlow Shapley*
From Of Stars and Men: The Human Response to an Expanding Universe (1958 Rev. Ed. 1964), Foreword.

Please
Regards

If you are using the universe as your basis of orderly, then you cannot rightly say the universe is chaotic.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you are using the universe as your basis of orderly, then you cannot rightly say the universe is chaotic.

It is a question that science should have answered. But in such matters science goes gibberish, it cannot answer such questions. As science has neither created this Universe/s nor it claims as such. Please
Regards

 

[McBell]

It is a question that science should have answered. But in such matters science goes gibberish, it cannot answer such questions. As science has neither created this Universe/s nor it claims as such. Please
Regards

It has nothing to do with science and everything to do with faulty logic.
Nice try though.

 

[paarsurrey]

It has nothing to do with science and everything to do with faulty logic.
Nice try though.

One means that science goes gibberish when confronted with such questions. Please
Regards