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is the universe or cosmos spiritually responding to us?

Discussion in 'Pantheism-Panentheism DIR' started by trablano, May 25, 2017.

  1. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

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    The short answer is yes. But in practice, to experience the fullness of that interaction, one must find out what and who they really in the context of all that is, whatever name we give to it, Universe, Cosmos, Brahman, Nirvana, Tau, God, etc., and can be a relatively long and difficult process.

    As one transfers one's self identity from the human body with its physical, emotional and mental conditioning, to that which extends beyond the physical, then the equivalent of a new birth takes place with its new self identification extending into the 'spiritual' realms.
     
  2. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Thw tangible and intangible - I wasn't aware of Spinoza holding this view. But to answer the op: Yes, the cosmos works with and quite possibly for us. Although life changes and we change with it, the resounding goal or rather the effect is ongoing life, whether physical (tangible) or intangible (spirit). This has been my view for well-over 15 - 20 years. I once compared it to a battery in operation complete with ground.
     
  3. Ella S.

    Ella S. Goth Girl

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    The universe isn't external to us. We are a part of it, just as our subconscious is. The interaction with our own subconscious and with the parts of the universe that aren't us are fairly commonplace.

    I don't think praying will grant you wishes, because I've seen so many studies that show the inefficacy of prayer. Nonetheless, there is a variety of ways to pray that rely on placebo, rubber-duck debugging, and contemplation, and I think these can be worthwhile.

    I think when you contemplate the universe and you feel that sense of awe and connection, that experience is caused by the universe just as everything else is.
     
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  4. vulcanlogician

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    He held the opposite view. Spinoza thought that nature (or "God" if you like) was indifferent to human desires and needs.

    In his Ethics he wrote:

    "All such opinions spring from the notion commonly entertained, that all things in nature act as men themselves act, namely, with an end in view. It is accepted as certain, that God himself directs all things to a definite goal (for it is said that God made all things for man, and man that he might worship him). I will, therefore, consider this opinion, asking first, why it obtains general credence, and why all men are naturally so prone to adopt it? secondly, I will point out its falsity; and, lastly, I will show how it has given rise to prejudices about good and bad, right and wrong, praise and blame, order and confusion, beauty and ugliness, and the like.

    ....

    As they look upon things as means, they cannot believe them to be self—created; but, judging from the means which they are accustomed to prepare for themselves, they are bound to believe in some ruler or rulers of the universe endowed with human freedom, who have arranged and adapted everything for human use. They are bound to estimate the nature of such rulers (having no information on the subject) in accordance with their own nature, and therefore they assert that the gods ordained everything for the use of man, in order to bind man to themselves and obtain from him the highest honor. Hence also it follows, that everyone thought out for himself, according to his abilities, a different way of worshipping God, so that God might love him more than his fellows, and direct the whole course of nature for the satisfaction of his blind cupidity and insatiable avarice. Thus the prejudice developed into superstition, and took deep root in the human mind; and for this reason everyone strove most zealously to understand and explain the final causes of things; but in their endeavor to show that nature does nothing in vain, i.e. nothing which is useless to man, they only seem to have demonstrated that nature, the gods, and men are all mad together."

    (Ethics, Part I, appendix)
     
    #24 vulcanlogician, Aug 16, 2022 at 4:39 PM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022 at 6:23 PM
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  5. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    I've never read Spinoza, but sentiment is a far cry from what was suggested to b. Attributed to him. Honestly, it's not indifference as much as its natural circles and progression. Each pack, tribe, etc., at least by my observance, tend to be self preserving. The universe (God) keeps existing, and we temporal elements of, keep going round and round. I'm suggesting circles of life and death, evolution, adaptation, birth and ongoing development in tune to our environments. Life happens and we navigate best were able as individuals, tribes, communities, and as nations.
     
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  6. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Have you ever contemplated that we are the universe?
     
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  7. Ella S.

    Ella S. Goth Girl

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    I have, and I have come to the conclusion that we are not the universe. Instead, we are parts of it.
     
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  8. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

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    Transitioning self identification from the material body to the whole is what all major religions are meant to help in realizing.
     
  9. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    I enjoy the contemplation ... without concluding absolutely. I sometimes think I'm viewing everything inside myself outwardly. I guess it might have a thing to do with being a living sensory organism. What am I "really" experiencing?
     
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  10. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

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    So long as there is an I present who is enjoying, contemplating, or viewing, the realization of universal being can never be. The reason is that universal being is a non-dual state of reality, just pure awareness devoid of thought processes. Thought otoh occurs in time and conceptualization of the observed by an observer is the result, ie. duality.
     
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