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is the universe or cosmos spiritually responding to us?

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
This is kind of the question of my life at this point. Having been very disappointed by the gods, especially in christianity, I am currently probing pantheism. So far I have found people speaking of near-death experiences, and I think there might be something to them. But there could also be just death awaiting us and that would be it, which might lead us to love each other as well as we can before becoming wormfood.

But maybe the cosmos is deeper than that and there is a chance for life going on after death somehow. I had experiences with ghosts/dead people/angels sometimes and this might be it.

Anyway, my main question is, is the cosmos responding to you spiritually, like when you pray to it? In me, there is a kind of stirring, I feel like I am ordering my emotions or the cosmos reaches into me. When I am deep in love with someone then things change too. But sometimes I am afraid of loving someone because anyway I will loose him or her to death. But without love life becomes empty and I am dependent on it.

What do you think?
The short answer is yes. But in practice, to experience the fullness of that interaction, one must find out what and who they really in the context of all that is, whatever name we give to it, Universe, Cosmos, Brahman, Nirvana, Tau, God, etc., and can be a relatively long and difficult process.

As one transfers one's self identity from the human body with its physical, emotional and mental conditioning, to that which extends beyond the physical, then the equivalent of a new birth takes place with its new self identification extending into the 'spiritual' realms.
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
Quintessence,

Spinoza argued that the cosmos forms god, as one substance with two attributes, matter and spirit. The question would be, is the cosmos conscious of us? Does this spirit in the cosmos resemble a god like we have them in the theistic traditions? In theism, we might argue that gods are omnipresent, at least some made this claim about the judeo-christian god.

I would connect this question to the question of suffering. I think when you suffer you might want to have a God by your side who sees you and accompanies you in life, who makes void the fear of death too. Which is a hard subject for me as I lost my dad 7 years ago and am still grieiving him. I thought maybe we could relate the cosmos to a grown entity that has somehow also made sure we survive death somehow.

Thw tangible and intangible - I wasn't aware of Spinoza holding this view. But to answer the op: Yes, the cosmos works with and quite possibly for us. Although life changes and we change with it, the resounding goal or rather the effect is ongoing life, whether physical (tangible) or intangible (spirit). This has been my view for well-over 15 - 20 years. I once compared it to a battery in operation complete with ground.
 

Ella S.

Dispassionate Goth
The universe isn't external to us. We are a part of it, just as our subconscious is. The interaction with our own subconscious and with the parts of the universe that aren't us are fairly commonplace.

I don't think praying will grant you wishes, because I've seen so many studies that show the inefficacy of prayer. Nonetheless, there is a variety of ways to pray that rely on placebo, rubber-duck debugging, and contemplation, and I think these can be worthwhile.

I think when you contemplate the universe and you feel that sense of awe and connection, that experience is caused by the universe just as everything else is.
 

vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware of Spinoza holding this view.

He held the opposite view. Spinoza thought that nature (or "God" if you like) was indifferent to human desires and needs.

In his Ethics he wrote:

"All such opinions spring from the notion commonly entertained, that all things in nature act as men themselves act, namely, with an end in view. It is accepted as certain, that God himself directs all things to a definite goal (for it is said that God made all things for man, and man that he might worship him). I will, therefore, consider this opinion, asking first, why it obtains general credence, and why all men are naturally so prone to adopt it? secondly, I will point out its falsity; and, lastly, I will show how it has given rise to prejudices about good and bad, right and wrong, praise and blame, order and confusion, beauty and ugliness, and the like.

....

As they look upon things as means, they cannot believe them to be self—created; but, judging from the means which they are accustomed to prepare for themselves, they are bound to believe in some ruler or rulers of the universe endowed with human freedom, who have arranged and adapted everything for human use. They are bound to estimate the nature of such rulers (having no information on the subject) in accordance with their own nature, and therefore they assert that the gods ordained everything for the use of man, in order to bind man to themselves and obtain from him the highest honor. Hence also it follows, that everyone thought out for himself, according to his abilities, a different way of worshipping God, so that God might love him more than his fellows, and direct the whole course of nature for the satisfaction of his blind cupidity and insatiable avarice. Thus the prejudice developed into superstition, and took deep root in the human mind; and for this reason everyone strove most zealously to understand and explain the final causes of things; but in their endeavor to show that nature does nothing in vain, i.e. nothing which is useless to man, they only seem to have demonstrated that nature, the gods, and men are all mad together."

(Ethics, Part I, appendix)
 
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Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
He held the opposite view. Spinoza thought that nature (or "God" if you like) was indifferent to human desires and needs.

In his Ethics he wrote:

"All such opinions spring from the notion commonly entertained, that all things in nature act as men themselves act, namely, with an end in view. It is accepted as certain, that God himself directs all things to a definite goal (for it is said that God made all things for man, and man that he might worship him). I will, therefore, consider this opinion, asking first, why it obtains general credence, and why all men are naturally so prone to adopt it? secondly, I will point out its falsity; and, lastly, I will show how it has given rise to prejudices about good and bad, right and wrong, praise and blame, order and confusion, beauty and ugliness, and the like

....

As they look upon things as means, they cannot believe them to be self—created; but, judging from the means which they are accustomed to prepare for themselves, they are bound to believe in some ruler or rulers of the universe endowed with human freedom, who have arranged and adapted everything for human use. They are bound to estimate the nature of such rulers (having no information on the subject) in accordance with their own nature, and therefore they assert that the gods ordained everything for the use of man, in order to bind man to themselves and obtain from him the highest honor. Hence also it follows, that everyone thought out for himself, according to his abilities, a different way of worshipping God, so that God might love him more than his fellows, and direct the whole course of nature for the satisfaction of his blind cupidity and insatiable avarice. Thus the prejudice developed into superstition, and took deep root in the human mind; and for this reason everyone strove most zealously to understand and explain the final causes of things; but in their endeavor to show that nature does nothing in vain, i.e. nothing which is useless to man, they only seem to have demonstrated that nature, the gods, and men are all mad together."

(Ethics, Part I, appendix)
I've never read Spinoza, but sentiment is a far cry from what was suggested to b. Attributed to him. Honestly, it's not indifference as much as its natural circles and progression. Each pack, tribe, etc., at least by my observance, tend to be self preserving. The universe (God) keeps existing, and we temporal elements of, keep going round and round. I'm suggesting circles of life and death, evolution, adaptation, birth and ongoing development in tune to our environments. Life happens and we navigate best were able as individuals, tribes, communities, and as nations.
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
The universe isn't external to us. We are a part of it, just as our subconscious is. The interaction with our own subconscious and with the parts of the universe that aren't us are fairly commonplace.

I don't think praying will grant you wishes, because I've seen so many studies that show the inefficacy of prayer. Nonetheless, there is a variety of ways to pray that rely on placebo, rubber-duck debugging, and contemplation, and I think these can be worthwhile.

I think when you contemplate the universe and you feel that sense of awe and connection, that experience is caused by the universe just as everything else is.

Have you ever contemplated that we are the universe?
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
I have, and I have come to the conclusion that we are not the universe. Instead, we are parts of it.

I enjoy the contemplation ... without concluding absolutely. I sometimes think I'm viewing everything inside myself outwardly. I guess it might have a thing to do with being a living sensory organism. What am I "really" experiencing?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
I enjoy the contemplation ... without concluding absolutely. I sometimes think I'm viewing everything inside myself outwardly. I guess it might have a thing to do with being a living sensory organism. What am I "really" experiencing?
So long as there is an I present who is enjoying, contemplating, or viewing, the realization of universal being can never be. The reason is that universal being is a non-dual state of reality, just pure awareness devoid of thought processes. Thought otoh occurs in time and conceptualization of the observed by an observer is the result, ie. duality.
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
But maybe the cosmos is deeper than that and there is a chance for life going on after death somehow. I had experiences with ghosts/dead people/angels sometimes and this might be it.
When we die a chemical is secreted in our brain that causes us to dream. Many see a white light and then meet god, or explore a sort of garden, have feelings of utmost freedom and lack of responsibility. Big Rock Candy Mountain type stuff. Eventually the trip fades and we become one with Nothing, spacetime.
Anyway, my main question is, is the cosmos responding to you spiritually, like when you pray to it? In me, there is a kind of stirring, I feel like I am ordering my emotions or the cosmos reaches into me.
Nature is alive. We are her cells, essentially. She doesn't want us to die, she just knows eventually it's good for an end. Imagine all the people trying to eek by on the Earth if none of us had died. The soil wouldn't get fed, neither the pollinators nor the plants and thus we wouldn't get fed as well as everything else.
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
This is kind of the question of my life at this point. Having been very disappointed by the gods, especially in christianity, I am currently probing pantheism. So far I have found people speaking of near-death experiences, and I think there might be something to them. But there could also be just death awaiting us and that would be it, which might lead us to love each other as well as we can before becoming wormfood.

But maybe the cosmos is deeper than that and there is a chance for life going on after death somehow. I had experiences with ghosts/dead people/angels sometimes and this might be it.

Anyway, my main question is, is the cosmos responding to you spiritually, like when you pray to it? In me, there is a kind of stirring, I feel like I am ordering my emotions or the cosmos reaches into me. When I am deep in love with someone then things change too. But sometimes I am afraid of loving someone because anyway I will loose him or her to death. But without love life becomes empty and I am dependent on it.

What do you think?
I believe consciousness is fundamental to reality and thus the universe is alive, and we, as their cells, are taken care of though can be damaged. But entropy is a misnomer, usually things just go swimmingly in the universe when you really take it into perspective. Bad stuff happens so inoften usually. It's great!

You should look into Taoism since you are so worried about death.

This isn't Daoist exactly but death is necessary for life. Death gives fertility back to the land by a cycle of eating poop (yes) of bacteria that decay dead organisms. And Nature doesn't tend to decay the living, Nature is bright.

Nature gives us a final trip in which a chemical sends us, the living for ten minutes after death brain, into a dream where time is dilated, seconds into months, and we meet god or whatever is our particular "heaven". Then eventually we merge back into the omnipresent consciousness, god, the universe, Nature, whatever you want to call them.
 
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