1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

is the universe or cosmos spiritually responding to us?

Discussion in 'Pantheism-Panentheism DIR' started by trablano, May 25, 2017.

  1. trablano

    trablano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    christianity
    This is kind of the question of my life at this point. Having been very disappointed by the gods, especially in christianity, I am currently probing pantheism. So far I have found people speaking of near-death experiences, and I think there might be something to them. But there could also be just death awaiting us and that would be it, which might lead us to love each other as well as we can before becoming wormfood.

    But maybe the cosmos is deeper than that and there is a chance for life going on after death somehow. I had experiences with ghosts/dead people/angels sometimes and this might be it.

    Anyway, my main question is, is the cosmos responding to you spiritually, like when you pray to it? In me, there is a kind of stirring, I feel like I am ordering my emotions or the cosmos reaches into me. When I am deep in love with someone then things change too. But sometimes I am afraid of loving someone because anyway I will loose him or her to death. But without love life becomes empty and I am dependent on it.

    What do you think?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    14,161
    Ratings:
    +5,026
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    I really think there is truth in the 'seek and ye shall find' phrase from the Bible. I think the universe is ultimately on our side and will help us appropriately.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    25,496
    Ratings:
    +8,425
    I know I attribute the blessings and warnings I get from my family in spirit but why do you need to attribute the love you feel, gratitude, etc to anything?

    I try to keep my prayers "empty." I say thank you and have a conversation with my family in spirit. Unless I'm asking for something or wanting to tell them my day, or something, I don't pray to them.

    The universe and cosmos? I don't know what that means in spiritual terminology. We experience gratitude by a number of different stimuli whether from meditation and reflection or an external source by someone saying you're welcome.

    I don't see a need to attribute your experiences to anything in the manner of worship. You have many choices you can reflect your experiences to. I never had a bad experience in christianity because I don't know what a god is when I did practiced it, only the spirit of christ. Maybe define what the cosmos are and write a reflection of your thoughts and experiences.
     
  4. crowfeather

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    Messages:
    525
    Ratings:
    +175
    Religion:
    taoist
    The universe is ambivalent. It cares nothing for you, or about what you do, or don't.
    Yet it is benign. Ready to embrace. Bountiful. Magnificent. Always there.
    How you live is your choice, as is how you die.
    Screaming in terror, or smiling and eager.
    Don't worry about whether the universe is responding to you: it's not about you.
    Just make sure you're responding to It.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,098
    Ratings:
    +13,318
    Religion:
    Druidry

    QFT.

    On the whole, if one is looking for a deity that cares about some individual human (aka, what is sometimes called a "personal" deity), pantheistic theology doesn't really support that well compared to other theological paradigms. Pantheism tends to be a very non-anthropocentric theology compared to, say, the theologies of the prevailing Abrahamic traditions in Western culture. As crowfeather put it above, the universe is not about you.

    I can't say I've ever felt "the cosmos" responding to me in any way. I don't believe such a thing is possible, given human limitations. I accept the limits I have been given, and the way I walk my path is to work with the gods/spirits that are local to me, not attempt to grasp that which is beyond my station. Perhaps that is why I am a polytheistic pantheist - it allows approaching various aspects of reality as individuals on a more personal level. Those individual aspects/gods/spirits (whatever you want to call them) do at times respond. Not sure if this is helpful or not - I can't say this approach would work for everyone, and maybe "the cosmos" as a personal deity could work for you somehow?


    That aside, reconciling challenges with the idea of death is a question that can be wrestled with independently of one's chosen theology. I see the two as largely unrelated. The lessons of one's theology can inform the answers one arrives to, though. For me, I observe that perhaps one of the few constants of the universe is that it is always changing. And that these changes always involve exchanges or transformations. The things we typically call "birth" and "death" are always happening in tandem; this means things do not "end" they become part of something else. I think about those connections, aim to honor them. The legacy is always there, whether a human acknowledges it or not. It is my job to acknowledge that legacy and not trivialize its importance.
     
  6. trablano

    trablano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    christianity
    Quintessence,

    Spinoza argued that the cosmos forms god, as one substance with two attributes, matter and spirit. The question would be, is the cosmos conscious of us? Does this spirit in the cosmos resemble a god like we have them in the theistic traditions? In theism, we might argue that gods are omnipresent, at least some made this claim about the judeo-christian god.

    I would connect this question to the question of suffering. I think when you suffer you might want to have a God by your side who sees you and accompanies you in life, who makes void the fear of death too. Which is a hard subject for me as I lost my dad 7 years ago and am still grieiving him. I thought maybe we could relate the cosmos to a grown entity that has somehow also made sure we survive death somehow.
     
  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    22,804
    Ratings:
    +10,318
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    I don't know about "spiritually," but quantum mechanics illustrates the universe responding to us, the Copenhagen interpretation, at least.

    Particle or wave? Alive or dead? We create the Reality.
     
    #7 Valjean, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  8. The_Fisher_King

    The_Fisher_King Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,060
    Ratings:
    +625
    Religion:
    Islam
    I believe that God and the cosmos (and all things in it) are One, and I also believe that this God (aka the cosmos) does care about what I do and don't do, and responds accordingly (via Angels, which are themselves part of God).
     
  9. trablano

    trablano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    christianity
    When I see the world I am very enamored with the cosmos. Same when I see the stars. But when I imagine the huge distances in space and the cold temperature and the many lifeless rocks in it, then I am a bit scared that the cosmos is largely hostile to life. But perhaps the cosmos is in fact thirsty for life, and all the hostilities we have found are sicknesses of a child that is screaming for his mother...
     
  10. idav

    idav Being
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,986
    Ratings:
    +3,300
    Religion:
    Pantheist
    There does seem to be a bit of a, devour to survive, to the cosmos. I like how you put it saying the cosmos are "thirsty for life". If science has shown anything very thoroughly is that it supersedes mechanistic logic. With the help of special relativity I think science has found god and has found a realm that is timeless and spaceless, and yet this timelessness is within everything.
     
  11. trablano

    trablano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    christianity
    We are definetly part of God already. There must simply be centers where God is strong and they are placed like Hubs all over the cosmos. Where God is strong, there life is strong too. And like Jesus Christ taught, there is more to life than striving and devouring. There is contemplation, loving, gardening, refining, transforming. We humans can work as the hands of God and I think one day we will go to Space and bring the seed of life deeper into this universe. Maybe there are pockets of fitting gasses in Saturn and Neptune and Jupiter and Uranus that we can seed with approbriate life seeds too. If we make an affordable space travel a reality we will be saved. Strive and hatred can't so easily follow us to the stars.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. The_Fisher_King

    The_Fisher_King Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,060
    Ratings:
    +625
    Religion:
    Islam
    Why not?
     
  13. illykitty

    illykitty RF's pet cat

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    3,339
    Ratings:
    +1,229
    Religion:
    Nature
    My outlook so far is that it's impersonal and natural. Pantheism expresses my reverence, how I recognise this force as being immense and both a part of and beyond me, but I don't see how a natural phenomena could "care" for things/beings. The furthest I'm willing to go is to say that the cosmos may experience life through living beings, all of it, even if it is horrible, beautiful or anything in between.

    But respond to prayers? No, I don't think so.
     
  14. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,316
    Ratings:
    +439
    Religion:
    Follower (and Writer) of the Mune Shinri
    I'm more of a panentheist than a pantheist. Which is why I have an affinity for Christianity and Taoism far more than secular pantheism shared by Einstein and science types. It seems more personal to think of stuff as not only part of everything, but also personally connected. It doesn't feel as sure, but it is more comforting.
     
  15. spirtual-philosophy

    spirtual-philosophy seeker of truth

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,892
    Ratings:
    +484
    Religion:
    non-theist / secular humanist
    Philosophically, I believe there is a God who created everything good and beautiful, and who inhabits this creation. I sense his presence and talk to him often as if he were a person standing within earshot. I call him Jesus because that way I don't disturb my Christian family members and friends who are so particular about such things.
     
  16. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    22,804
    Ratings:
    +10,318
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Responding to us spiritually? I don't know about spiritually, but the universe seems to be pretty much created by us, in our own minds/consciousness.

    Reality exists only as an inchoate fog of probability until we actually observe, and collapse it into a tangible reality.

    When we open our eyes we create the universe.
    This is current, mainstream physics. Read whatever spirituality into it you like.
     
  17. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,316
    Ratings:
    +439
    Religion:
    Follower (and Writer) of the Mune Shinri
    Yes!

    There are two phenomena that I have noticed over the years.

    The first is called mirroring, and involves the tendency of the universe to follow patterns that are symbolically analogous to what is going on in our lives.
    For example: you have been fired, and have just been sitting around all day feeling sorry for yourself. Your loved ones might have leg problems (you are symbolically hamstrung, because you're not going anywhere) and likewise machines like your lawnmower might fail to start (no "spark").

    The second is called encoded messages. It's like, you listen to a sermon or watch a commercial and despite many other people there, something random they say appears to be speaking to you.
     
  18. spirtual-philosophy

    spirtual-philosophy seeker of truth

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,892
    Ratings:
    +484
    Religion:
    non-theist / secular humanist
    If you are referring to quantum mechanics I should note that it doesn't require a conscious observer to trigger the wavefunction collapse but, rather, any interaction with another particle. In fact, that's all the observer does -- in observing, they poke at it with particles or photons and that is what triggers the wavefunction collapse.
     
  19. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    583
    Ratings:
    +348
    Religion:
    Thelemite (and strong-Theist)
    I believe that the concept Jung termed "Synchronicity", is the refining of the ultimate chaos of God/The All/The Universe - it is the way that our own paths (and those of others) are most strongly intertwined. This also connects to the concept of purpose in the bigger picture.
     
  20. MNoBody

    MNoBody Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2020
    Messages:
    343
    Ratings:
    +137
    to what degree?.... is a great question
    individual results apparently vary
     
Loading...