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Is the Trinity the God?

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
So I don't really understand. Is the whole Trinity together one? And that One is God?

Or is The Father the God? And because it is the same person as the Son the Son is also God and the Holy Spirit isn't really much?
 
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Acim

Revelation all the time
Are they all in one? All the same person? Or what?

As I understand things, Son is extension of Father and Holy Spirit is communication link (Voice of God) between Father and Creation. In Kingdom, the Holy Spirit is not needed.

Does this help?
 

cAmigo

Member
It is simple:
It is about the revelation of the God who is One, yet not solitary.
The Trinity is three persons in perfect unity, therefore in perfect oneness.
The person's identities are relationships to each other:
Father of the Son
Son of the Father
Holy Spirit of them both.

Because there are naturally related, they are naturally united and are one in Being.

You can not have father without having son.
You can not have son without having father.
So you have unity and oneness in their very being. Beautiful to contemplate....

Since they are not like any common father and son, but perfect, impecable in their identiy, I mean perfect fatherhood, and perfect sonship, this reveal an other relationship with an other person who personifies this perfection: the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, obviously, the father is not the son, and the son is not the father; and the Holy Spirit is none of them, because of each is what He is in relationship to an other.
And the Holy Spirit is what He is for them both.

The Son is the 'Son' of the 'Father'
The Father is the 'Father' of the 'Son'
The Holy Spirit is the 'holy spirit' of them both.

Three persons, three relationships binding in a perfect unity only possible in the divine being. They are perfectly united, so they are perfectly one.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
So I don't really understand. Is the whole Trinity together one? And that One is God?

Or is The Father the God? And because it is the same person as the Son the Son is also God and the Holy Spirit isn't really much?


dont bother trying to understand it...even those who teach it dont understand it :D
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
A way I heard someone explain Oneness once was to say that a person, a lady we'll say....
She is One person, but in that one person she is an Aunt, Grandmother, Sister, Cousin, Child, yet remains one person, one body.

Another way I've heard is the three states of water and their different forms.
All the same material/substance, but acting and appearing distinct and with its own set of characteristics.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
The word I was looking for was Godhead. I was wondering if Trinity was the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit put together to equal God.
 
The way I understand it The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same Light and Substance, but with different roles.
 

cAmigo

Member
The word I was looking for was Godhead. I was wondering if Trinity was the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit put together to equal God.

Trinity is just a description of the situation.
Godhead is also a term used to refer to the unity of mind and vision. It is not like we have one person with three heads, or one head with three bodies.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Actually "Godhead" originally was "Godhede" which means "godhood". It only later developed alternative defintions as if it were an actual being as opposed to a Qualitative noun, but it is nothing more than a Qualitative noun. The only applicable use of it, in Biblical sense would be like "Jesus had godhead", not "Jesus was part of the godhead", the only way "Godhead" could have a "The" would be like "The Godhead of Jesus was evident in his miracles", ultimately it only ever means "godhood", anything else is a later English mangling of the term.
 

cAmigo

Member
A way I heard someone explain Oneness once was to say that a person, a lady we'll say....
She is One person, but in that one person she is an Aunt, Grandmother, Sister, Cousin, Child, yet remains one person, one body.

Another way I've heard is the three states of water and their different forms.
All the same material/substance, but acting and appearing distinct and with its own set of characteristics.

I used to think like that, but one day, I realized that relationship also makes unity of those who are related and that they are truly one thanks to the relationship.
About the water example, I realize that it require change or different environment, but the persons of the Trinity are always present together and to each other and disntinctively.
 

cAmigo

Member
Actually "Godhead" originally was "Godhede" which means "godhood". It only later developed alternative defintions as if it were an actual being as opposed to a Qualitative noun, but it is nothing more than a Qualitative noun. The only applicable use of it, in Biblical sense would be like "Jesus had godhead", not "Jesus was part of the godhead", the only way "Godhead" could have a "The" would be like "The Godhead of Jesus was evident in his miracles", ultimately it only ever means "godhood", anything else is a later English mangling of the term.

I like your explanation of this.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
dont bother trying to understand it...even those who teach it dont understand it :D
Jesus taught that knowing the Father is required to become a recipient of Eternal Life. We obviously know who the advent of the Son of God was, but there are two other advents of Christ that we ought to concern ourselves with. If the Father is here among us as an advent and as Luke 12 says, as if a thief in the night, then if we do not make sincere and diligent effort to understand holy writ, we could end up totally missing out. I have said other things about the Trinity doctrine in past posts so I won't repeat any of it here.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
The way I understand it The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same Light and Substance, but with different roles.
In a nutshell, Father, Son and Holy Ghost are each three distinct personages who manifest the Godhead to us. Each cycle of creation begins with the Father's advent when He completes the judgment of the past creation and puts the plan in place for the new creation. Then, the new creation needs a new Son and then towards the end of the creation you have the advent of the Holy Ghost who lays the foundation for the new creation but things run amok. He falls and is in need of being redeemed. What happens is the Son of God comes as Son of Man and redeems his Father and puts him back on His throne. What I speak of here is Adam is the Father who falls and becomes the Holy Ghost but then He is redeemed and returns as the advent of the Father, through union with the Son, and then the Kingdom of God reigns upon the earth triumphant with a whole new creation kicked off.

If you look at the three separate individuals who perform these advents you will see a pattern develop that shows the significant portions of their lives where they are doing something important and such that they are only active for a single lifespan. For example, Jesus was spoken of from birth to about 12 years old and then he had a brief ministry around 30 years old when he was crucified. Then, we have the prophecy of the Deliverer of Sion who is the "one like unto Moses" who gathers together all of the dispersed tribes of Israel and who brings it all back together again. If you look at Moses for a type of this individual, Moses didn't really kick into an active role or ministry until he was nearly 40 years old. Jesus had already been killed by then so this obviously isn't an exact fit for what Jesus did. As I see it, the advent of the Father is the one that Moses typified so we have a remaining portion of time that remains from about 13 or 14 years old to about 39 years old with some chunks removed to dovetail in the brief ministry of Jesus in his early 30's. This would be the advent of the Holy Ghost who comes in the latter days to lay the foundation for the new creation. This is also an individual who is overcome by transgression and who is put to death. This person would also have to be a direct eye-witness of the Father and the Son in order to be a person who can be a Testifier of the Father and the Son. He would also have to have been given the kingdom and also be a restorer of the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ who does as Jesus says He would do, which is He shall teach you all things and bring all things (that I taught you) to your remembrance (which implies Jesus teachings would become misunderstood and adulterated). He and His Bride (Eve, the latter-day restored Church) would go into a state of beguilement and fall under the Serpent's power for a time and would be overcome by Cain (Lucifer-Son of the Morning) but Seth (Son of Man) would eventually redeem and restore Adam to His throne as the Father.

So, when you read in Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

What you see here is Jesus-Jehovah-Son being the redeemer of Adam-Michael-HG who was given dominion (kingship) and then He fell and became deceased, thus a Ghost. But, Jesus and Adam enter into a state of spiritual union and Adam is redeemed from His fall and then the two together manifest in the advent of the Father. Thus, the atonement is a process of the Son and the Holy Ghost entering into union spiritually and returning to the earth in a new advent via the resurrection process, and performing the role of the One Like Unto Moses who shall gather all the literal 12 tribes of Israel and establish them again as a sovereign and distinct kingdom that shall truly bring peace to a torn up and ruined world due to Adam's fall.

You can see the Trinity in many of the symbols in the scriptures. For example, look at Leviticus chapter 16 where it talks about there being two goats and a ram that are offered on behalf of the people. These three animals are representative of each office in the Godhead. Each animal (advent) has a distinct role to fulfill so that the work of creation can continue from cycle to cycle. The Son and the Holy Ghost of the previous creation cycle enter into union and become the Father of the new creation cycle. Thus, the Father represents the entire hierarchy of past gods that have served in past creation cycles. This is the true and living vine. It's like the repository or storehouse for all ancient knowledge for how to govern this world in truth and justice that becomes manifest in the future advent of Christ that is in fact not just a return of Jesus but is also a 2nd coming of the Holy Ghost advent and all advents in all previous cycles of creation. This is how there is One God (for all of creation) and many gods (for all creations past) and how there is the prospect that in due time an individual such as you or me could progress to such an extent that you would have your opportunity to perform an advent of the Godhead in a future cycle of creation.
 
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