Is the Trinity significant?

[ἀλήθεια]

Reading the Bible I found that actually the Trinity is never actually directly stated as being true. The idea of God being 1 and 2 and 3 at the same therefore is invention, at least by the Councils of Nicea and Chalcedon...what significance does the Trinity have, if any?

Rather than being an invention it is taught in the Bible and defended by the Council at Nicea.

The Trinity has great significance to a Christian. We are to serve and worship only one God. If Christ were merely a man he ought to have rebuked those who worshipped Him. Yet, instead of rebuking Thomas, Christ had kind words for him:

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:27-29)

There is only one God:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD (Deut. 6:4)

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:1-5)

Remember that God said He would not give His glory to another. Was Christ a liar?

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.(Eph. 4:6)

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Can man raise himself from the dead?

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (John 2:19)

I can give you more information if you're interested and if I have time to come back to this. God is all three persons at the same time and the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have a relationship with one another.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

More evidence of the Triune God or Trinity is found in the fact that the Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Father or Son. Peter calls the Holy Spirit, "God." ( see Acts 5:3-4)

At the baptism of Christ, all three Persons were represented. The Father's voice spoke from heaven, the Holy Spirit appeared in the form of a dove, and the Son stood before man in the water. The Holy Spirit can be grieved, and He can be sent. The Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:11)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

The Son, too, had been sent:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

Who is God?

God the Father calls the Son, "God." Hebrews 1:1, 2, 8
Peter calls the Holy Spirit, "God." Acts 5:3-4
Jesus calls the Father, "God." John 6:27



And we know that there is only one God:

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (Isaiah 43:10)

 

[VEW]

Reading the Bible I found that actually the Trinity is never actually directly stated as being true. The idea of God being 1 and 2 and 3 at the same therefore is invention, at least by the Councils of Nicea and Chalcedon...what significance does the Trinity have, if any?

Curtisloew....I have never seen a person that has not previously been indoctrinated with the Trinity, who reads the Bible come up with any such idea. Even the New Catholic Encyclopedia admits that this doctrine was not taught by Jesus and his disciples.

It says: " "The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective."—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: "Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching."—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.​

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions."—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.​

Also, John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: "The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians."—(New York, 1965), p. 899.​

Then we have The New Encyclopædia Britannica which says: "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since."—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The Trinity doctrine is simply not a Bible teaching.......The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father----Jehovah/Yawheh. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.

Thus, The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally."—Vol. XIV, p. 296........VEW

 

[VEW]

The Trinity, in principle, as I understand it, is supposed to make God more intimate and by extension to demonstrate the myriad of ways that God can be understood. I agree that God can be understood in myriad of ways; however the concept of the trinity I believe is un-scriptural, and contrary to reason. I am a proud, unapologetic Christian in the Universalist and Unitarian traditions. Jesus being a devoted Jew, and an itinerant Rabbi was a human prophet who constantly subordinated himself to God, and was attuned to God's presence and voice. He constantly recited the Shema- O Hear O Israel the Eternal our God is one and only one (Deuteronomy 6:4–9) Later as Jesus was being crucified at the hands of the Romans for preaching God's all inclusive love, and radical hospitality he questioned God in the famous words of Psalm 22, "My God, My God- why have you forsaken me?" In Luke 22:42, Jesus as he is ready to be executed is going through a crisis of faith and asks his God, "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; yet, not my will but yours be done" When Jesus is praying in the garden, then why is it is necessary, if Jesus is God? I believe in worship that one worships and prays to God, and to God alone not the messenger. If one is finite as Jesus is, then one cannot also be infinite. If one is infinite as God, then God cannot be finite. In John 4:24, it states that God is spirit, and those who worship God must worship in spirit and truth" With God being spirit, spirit doesn't have a body, and spirit therefore cannot be divided. A Unitarian Godhead makes more sense to me as it brings Christianity back into harmony with Judaism, that rather than saying that there is a God of y tradition, and a God of x tradition, that by affirming God's oneness then all of us are beloved children of a singular unitary God. Further, Unitarian theology allows us to follow to the religion of Jesus (his teachings, and example) as opposed to the religion about Jesus (creeds, dogmas made up about him) finally, if God is one it also says that the human family is one, our Earth is one. In regard to the verses that seem to defend the Trinity, when it comes to John 10:30 of Jesus’ claim that I and the Father are one. He is not talking about being the same substance of God of but instead he refers to spiritual oneness of being attuned to God's voice. Next comes John 8:5-8 where Jesus is said to "tell people the truth" that before Abraham was born, "I am". I am is the name of God, and nowhere in this passage is it referring to Jesus he is pointing back to God. In John 14: 7, which says that if you have seen Jesus, you have seen his Father”? This verse tells us that by Jesus’ actions and his words you are given a glimpse of God.

I still use the language of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or in the modern speak Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer. The traditional language can be interpreted from a Unitarian theology. Father is the Eternal God, Jesus is a son of God in that we are all children of God, and the Holy Spirit is the power of God's love manifest in the universe or the divine spark within.

What you say makes a lot of Scriptural sense.
A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as "proof" of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity. Consider the following:
Let's consider the Texts in which the plural form of nouns is applied to God in the Hebrew Scriptures

At Genesis 1:1 the title "God" is translated from ’Elo·him´, which is plural in Hebrew. Trinitarians construe this to be an indication of the Trinity. They also explain Deuteronomy 6:4 to imply the unity of members of the Trinity when it says, "The LORD our God [from ’Elo·him´] is one LORD."

The plural form of the noun here in Hebrew is the plural of majesty or excellence. (See NAB, St. Joseph Edition, Bible Dictionary, p. 330; also, New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. V, p. 287.) It conveys no thought of plurality of persons within a godhead. In similar fashion, at Judges 16:23 when reference is made to the false god Dagon, a form of the title ’elo·him´ is used; the accompanying verb is singular, showing that reference is to just the one god. At Genesis 42:30, Joseph is spoken of as the "lord" (’adho·neh´, the plural of excellence) of Egypt.

The Greek language does not have a ‘plural of majesty or excellence.’ So, at Genesis 1:1 the translators of LXX used ho The·os´ (God, singular) as the equivalent of ’Elo·him´. At Mark 12:29, where a reply of Jesus is reproduced in which he quoted Deuteronomy 6:4, the Greek singular ho The·os´ is similarly used.

At Deuteronomy 6:4, the Hebrew text contains the Tetragrammaton twice, and so should more properly read: "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (NW) The nation of Israel, to whom that was stated, did not believe in the Trinity. The Babylonians and the Egyptians worshiped triads of gods, but it was made clear to Israel that Jehovah is different.....

Therefore, it is clear that the Trinity is not a Bible teaching......VEW

 

[Katzpur]

Curtisloew....I have never seen a person that has not previously been indoctrinated with the Trinity, who reads the Bible come up with any such idea. Even the New Catholic Encyclopedia admits that this doctrine was not taught by Jesus and his disciples.

It says: " "The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective."—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: "Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching."—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.​

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions."—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.​

Also, John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: "The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians."—(New York, 1965), p. 899.​

Then we have The New Encyclopædia Britannica which says: "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since."—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The Trinity doctrine is simply not a Bible teaching.......

Good quotes. (By the way, most of us on RF can read the default font just as well as we can the really big fonts. Also, an extra large font often has the effect of making the poster look insecure -- as if he is overcompensating for the lack of having something worthwhile to say. Since you obviously do have something worthwhile to say, you might want to consider going with the default font in the future. )

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father----Jehovah/Yawheh. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.

Could you please point out where the scriptures specifically state that Jehovah is the personal name of the Father?

 

[John Martin]

I find the concept of Trinity is very significant for my daily living. The essence of Trinity is relationship. It means life is relationship. In every relationship there is giver, the receiver and the object given and received. In Trinity these three are the same. We need to experience God in living relationships. the giver is one manifestation of God, the receiver is another manifestation of God, the object given is another manifestation of God. it is one God in three.
A man is one manifestation of God; a woman is another manifestation of God;what they give and receive is another manifestation of God. It is one God in three.
So when we say God is trinity, we are projecting our own trinity in God. Or What is God inside is projected outside. God is Trinity. God is relationship. Our life is Trinity. Trinity is Love: the Beloved, the lover and the loving. Those who know what love is understand what Trinity is. It is living moment by moment.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The persons of the trinity; God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are mentioned many times in the Bible.
However "The Trinity" as a concept had not get been thought through.
This lack of clarity caused a number of problems with the proto-theology, especially when it came to considering "Christianity" as a monotheistic religion.

Even after the "Trinity" was accepted by a majority of the new churches There were still many who supported variations of the concept or had other ideas entirely.

Those that accepted Jesus as "God" had no alternative but accept "some" concept that did not promote Christianity as other than Mono-theistic. As a result we have been saddled with an explanation and a view of the Trinity that few if any comprehend.

The trinity has become a central tenet to most Christians churches.
However the Unitarian view has never gone away, and gained ground particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries, but has since gone back into the background.

Many Christians today accept the Trinity but not the explanation. They prefer to see the relationship of God, His son and the Holy spirit as unexplainable.

 

[syo]

Reading the Bible I found that actually the Trinity is never actually directly stated as being true. The idea of God being 1 and 2 and 3 at the same therefore is invention, at least by the Councils of Nicea and Chalcedon...

it's not an invention but an understanding, and yes the trinity is real.