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Is the Theory of Evolution Harmless to Religion?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Sunstone, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    Not to mention that from memory the doses weren't proportional. Try strapping something the relative size of a cell phone to a mouse to your head and see if it doesn't **** you up at an accelerated rate, even if you're not predisposed to lymphomas.
    This was one of those studies that made you go ':rolleyes: I pay taxes to fund this.'
    I've got a great idea! Let's take something that's designed to get cancer as a matter of course, bombard it with a level of radiation that's commensurate with a man on a phone the size of his sofa for an hour a day, and at the end of 18 months, well, bugger me, the mouse is sick. No, I kid you not, it is! And this proves that sometimes it takes a scientist to prove something that the dumbest man onthe street could have told you for nothing as a matter of common sense. The moral is, don't have a cell phone the size of your couch if you've been bred to develop cancer.


    You know that sounds awfully like you mean smart people have no time for the bible or your god.;)
     
  2. Songofmorning

    Songofmorning Member

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    Hi everyone. I'm new here and I just wanted to post my thoughts. I know for a fact that the theory of evolution is detrimental to religion especially Christianity for a number of reasons. Take for example, the belief that God used evolution to create the world. If someone believes that God used evolution to create the world then they would have to accept that millions of years of disease, death, animals eating one another, and pain would be good to God (Don't forget Genesis 1:31- And God saw everything that He had made and behold it was very good.) Also if evolution were true then Jesus Christ would never have had to die for our sins because death, disease, and pain is the natural order of things that God believes is "very good". Jesus Christ came to eliminate death but if God saw if as very good from the beginning what need would it be for God to change it (God doesn't change: Hebrews 13:8) One more thing: I was speaking to friend on this issue and she said that the problem was only when humans came on the scence. Do you think that the death of animals doesn't hurt God? (Wouldn't you be sad if your dog died?) God states that He is love (1 John 4:8). How could a God of evolution be loving at all? Sorry for the long post. I was just tryiong to give my reasons as the original poster asked.
     
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    That, I can go along with; if something can be messed up, you can be sure humanity will find a way!:rolleyes:

    I am not sure I understand the point you are making; a death on Earth is nothing but a birth in a different life (That of the freedom of the soul from it's earthly shackles) ........there is nothing to fear from death; I personally am looking forward to it.:D
     
  4. Songofmorning

    Songofmorning Member

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    Well, I don't believe that death is the natural order of things or good or even a part of God's natural plan. I mean death can't be all that good if you can't praise God (Psalms 115:17 says that "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence") which praising God and serving God is our purpose in life (Ecclesiastes 12:13 says "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.")
    Also, if death were a good thing why would God give us eternal life as a reward (John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life")?
     
  5. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    So God's plan has been thwarted. This implies that the plan was imperfect and God's ability to enforce it limited.

    Sounds like a carppy purpose to me.

    Many of those commands include killing things and people. What were you saying about death?
     
  6. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Sooooo,

    Which is worse? Physical death or spiritual death?
     
  7. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    if dogs can't sin (and death is a result of sin) why do they die?

    sorry but I think God had this whole death thing figured out long before Adam and Eve... :cool:

    wa:do
     
  8. askeptic

    askeptic Member

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    Reading through this long thread, it seems that (the Christians) don't necessarily believe in a god, but rather they want to believe in their Bible. So, is the word "religion" focused on belief in a "god" or belief in some sacred text?

    Why is it that the word "religion" seems to be synonymous with the Christian religion? There are some here who do try to point out that the word "religion" encompasses a huge variety of worldviews, not just Christianity.

    One can go to several boards where practically every verse in the Bible is argued about as to its "true" interpretation. Because of this, it seems to me to make little sense to argue the question by arguing the Bible.

    What becomes obvious, though is that the believers whose posts I've read, generally speaking (certainly not all believers) seem to be much more focused on the Bible than on their concept of "god".

    I think that the fact of evolution is quite threatening to all religions that share the idea of a god as a punisher, a god that needs to achieve ends through means (why does an unlimited being need to have a "plan" to achieve an "end"?), a god that is fearful that it will cease to exist if belief in it ceases, and must "punish" non-belief, and a god that is at once all-knowing, but at the same time must even threaten punishment to an outcome it already knows. Do you suppose that Jefferson's religion would be threatened by evolution? I don't think his or other deistic religions are threatened by evolution, nor can I see any religion that is concerned with the self and its interaction with the world being threatened.

    The religions that appear to be threatened by the modern world - by science and reason - are those that need allegiance and confirmation of their belief system by insisting that others believe them, too, or their religion is somehow threatened. My view is that these folks who are threatened by evolution use their religion, not as a path to personal enlightenment, but rather as a path to power and superiority, and the fact that fewer people might believe threatens that power and superiority.

    It seems to me that truth should be welcomed, wherever it is found. Why would anyone want to believe untrue things? The truth has no agenda, and its not going to cease being the truth just because it is inconvenient or because conflicts with pre-conceived notions.
     
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  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Well, obviously you haven't read any of my posts! Next time try a broader brush and see if we can foist more misconseptions on all Christians, no matter what we believe!
     
  10. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Ooooh touchy. Here's a thought, try reading his post again. You might find a small caveat in there that addresses your concern.
     
  11. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    He lost me at
     
  12. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    personally I see his point. Christians do tend to hold the bible above all else.
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Fade,

    I don't doubt your words. There are many out there who are convinced they know what I believe because I am a Christian. They assume the worst and feel that their prejudicial slant on all Christians is somehow justified. It isn't.
     
  14. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    What is sad is that it works both ways. I've spent plenty of time trolling Christian forums and without fail there are the same sort of prejuduces aimed at people who believe something different. :(
     
  15. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    All religions have their bigots: that doesn't make bigotry right for ANY of them. The goal is to eliminate prejudice at every chance!
     
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  16. askeptic

    askeptic Member

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    I'll back up,

    I saw that the question was "Is the Theory of Evolution Harmless to Religion?"

    But the word "religion" is not well understood. Can such a general question be asked? Many definitions define religion as having a belief in the supernatural. But that would say that naturalistic religions aren't religions at all!

    So maybe it is more appropriate to ask which religions are threatened by the theory of evolution, and why.
     
  17. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    What would be your response to those questions?
     
  18. askeptic

    askeptic Member

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    by Sunstone

    (not quite sure how you get that "originally posted by" in there)

    It certainly doesn't take me to answer, though. The news tells the story. Which religion is trying (in America) to pretend that creation is a theory on par with evolution? Certainly, Christianity can't be painted with a broad stroke, any more than the Muslims or any other organized religion, but fundamentalist sects are certainly pushing hard, and are represented by such folks as our President. My view is that fundamentalism, regardless of its roots, is threatened by any idea that challenges its authority. In Afghanistan, the taliban destroyed priceless statues because their religion doesn't permit "graven images". I'm not absolutely certain, but I'd venture a guess that they would not embrace evolutionary theory.

    For a quick answer, any religion that oppresses, or attempts to oppress its followers in some way (and especially those who demand belief and don't tolerate dissent or non-belief) is likely to be threatened by modernity, including evolutionary theory.
     
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  19. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Unfortunately, extremism is often mislabled fundamentalism. The fundamentals of Christianity are "Love God and Love Everyone Else". Evolution niether condmns or validates these concepts, even though some "extremists" argue that they do. Extremism on the other hand, is exclusionary and excels in being devisive.

    In reality, I am a radical fundamentalist and have no issues with evolution.
     
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