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Featured Is the Qur'an Inspired ?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Neuropteron, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi,
    I do not have an epistemology concerning the Muslim faith, I was asking questions.

    Shahādah, (Arabic: “testimony”) the Muslim profession of faith: “There is no god but God; (Encyclopaedia Britannica.

    I am surprise you are unaware of the Caliph and Imams instruction that the Qur'an should not be translated. Do not ask me prove it, I'm sure you are capable of using a search engine to find that information yourself.

    Concerning your instruction to do more research:
    I do not see it as my duty to instruct anyone in the Islamic faith, thus see no advantage to spend further time to do in depth research to that end.
    Furthermore I am happy to let those that find solace and conviction in doctrinal incantation do so in peace.
     
  2. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Many bible historical events are not part of world history. It can be a stumbling block for some.
    The fact that they are not part of history does not mean that they never happened. It just is not proven.
     
  3. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Very true.
    I am in no position to persuade others. Even if I could I would not attempt it, since only if we persuade ourselves can we have a strong foundation for our faith.
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Which khalif said that?

    Yet I suppose since you said "Dont ask me" you are not interested in conversations but making statements.

    Alright. No problem. Dont do research. Its your prerogative.

    I will just say your statements I addressed are bogus. Just made up.

    Have a good day.
     
  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Exactly, there is no evidence that either the Bible or the Quran are the word of God, it is just what people believe.
     
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  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    @Rival I just logged on t let you know, I will be quite busy for a few days. I got through reading half of the page here, but as soon as I have more time, I will finish the reading, and we can talk. Later.

    I think I explained that, and I said more than just what you quoted, so I think you picked the result from the failed answer to the question that proceeded it.
    If you want to attempt the question, then the answer might be available.

    Anyway, I got to go. I just dropped in to let someone know I'll be missing a few days. Duty calls. Later.
     
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  7. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    God commands his Angels himself. Gabriel was a messenger who appeared to people like Mary to tell them what would happen to her. But the word of God came unto man by the Holy Spirit. Gabriel, would never have given anything to another human being concerning Gods word especially contradictory.
    It is said that the devil can be transformed into an angel of light. His greatest deception to fool who?
    KJV
    And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    Joseph Smith the founder of the Mormons said:Angel Moroni is an angel whom Joseph Smith reported as having visited him on numerous occasions, beginning on September 21, 1823. According to Smith, the angel was the guardian of the golden plates,

    I suppose they should combine their books. You see there is only one God he does not lie and he has only ever shown himself to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their descendants. Ishmael was a Jew he was never a Muslim and would never advise his nation to ignore the truth.

    The books passed down from generation to generation since Moses wrote them. You think the Jews would not be sure about who wrote the books?
    Do you not know the history of the Torah and the Pentateuch and the Septuagint written in Greek by Jewish Scholars in 3rd and 2nd century BC. The fact is they all, Jews that is, has to learn it off by heart. We see in the new testament the Jewish disciples brought to mind what the Prophets had said which they knew by heart. Make no mistake there is no doubt that from Moses to present day the Jews remembered by heart what they learned and passed on. Sometimes the history of a people teaches us more about the truth than historians.

    So we see that the Holy Spirit brought the word of God to his Prophets. Not angels with gold plates to transcribe.
     
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  8. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    There is no comparison it is a little like someone writing about Christ in a newspaper or book today and claiming the book to be Gods word. It does not have any significance when the person was not a witness like the disciples.
     
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  9. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    17 times a day at least.
    Prayer is obligatory for Muslims, in general. There are no specific Muslims for whom it is not obligatory.
    Romans 12:2 has hardly anything to do with deduction, logic and reason.

    Where does Matthew 6:7 mention critical thinking?

    Matthew 26:44 "So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing."


    Which brings up the question, why do you oppose polygamy when the Bible doesn't prohibit it, but rather presents it as an example multiple times?
    Allah is not a mere translation of the word God. Allah is the name of God. We don't say, there is no God but the God. This is wrong. We say, there is no God but Allah.
     
  10. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    That is true and they were right. But they should have been prepared for it since the scriptures taught them the coming of the Messiah with the introduction of new spiritual insight.
     
  11. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Jesus mentions "vain" or senseless repetition (as required for Muslims" that is not to say that repetitions are forbidden.
     
  12. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    What would make the first chapter of the Qur'an vain repetition?

    Here's what the chapter says:

    1. In the name of Allah, The Most Gracious and The Most Merciful
    2. [All] praise is [due] to Allah, Lord of the worlds
    3. The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful,
    4. Sovereign of the Day of Recompense. 5. It is You we worship and You we ask for help.
    6. Guide us to the straight path
    7. The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

    Can you point out what is vain in that? And why is it more vain than the Lord's prayer as found in the Bible?
     
  13. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi,
    "vain repetition" are Jesus's words not mine.
    The text does not state that a particular text of the Qur'an is vain, rather that repeating it mindlessly or anything else is vain and should not be done.

    The reasons are clear, it's simply not conducing to rational thought.

    The very name Qur'an means "recitation" one synonym for recitation is recapitulation.
    In the five pillars of Observation the first Pillar states: "repeat the creed...."

    I admit to being confused how anyone can declare that Muslims are not repeating word for word their prayer and their creed, as it is evident not only in their literature but is displayed daily in public .
     
  14. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    But you're claiming to know what it means, so you should be able to tell what it is and what makes something vain repetition.
    I don't know what the anything else part refers to, but obviously the repetition of the first chapter of the Qur'an is not done mindlessly. We must focus on what we're saying and understand what it means (which isn't as simple as one might think). There is something called khushoo, which means calmness and humility among other things, and is necessary during prayer.
    If I say recitation, I don't mean recapitulation though, I have no idea what your point is. The Qur'an, while it has seeming repetition in it, is not repetitive for no reason. There is great wisdom behind the repetitiveness.

    I'll give you an example that I have learned about.

    17:31 "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin."

    6:151 "Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."'

    There are two reasons people use to, and maybe still, kill their children. One is the fear the child will bring them poverty, and they won't be able to provide for themselves. Another is the fear they won't be able to feed the baby, which is why in the other verse the order is reversed.
    Who said they aren't? For sure they are. The question is why do you think you have the evidence to prove it is wrong? You claim it's from the Bible, but your interpretation of the words vain repetition is not clear. It's a spacious argument to say the least. And of course there is tons of repetition in the Bible, in the Lord's prayer and in general in the prayers of Christians - we know about the prayer books.
     
  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Im only looking at the vast number of people who now accept Christ because of belief in Muhammad and the Quran. They are taught from early childhood to accept Jesus. It’s part of their spiritual education.
     
  16. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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  17. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It is a different dogmatic Jesus that they are taught to believe in. Not the dogmatic Jesus of the Gospels nor the historical Jesus.
     
  18. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of similarities between the Jesus (peace be upon him) of the Bible and Jesus (peace be upon him) as described in the Qur'an and the only contradiction I know of is in the issue of his death in the Bible - which would not be an issue of a different Jesus, but of a different story about Jesus.
     
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I think there are other differences, for example if I recall Jesus in the Quran is born under a date palm tree in a remote place as opposed to a manger.
     
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  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Sure, Quran is inspired, but what inspired it can be debated.
    Or even that a God exists. Peoples' choice of belief.
    Yes, it is no more vain than the Lord's prayer as found in the Bible.
    Christians also have their beads, in spite of whatever Jesus might have said.
    Prayer beads - Wikipedia
    Yeah, the great ocean-churning by Gods and demons in Hinduism and drinking of the great poison by Shiva is not history, but it does not mean it never happened. It is just not proven.

    [​IMG]
     
    #60 Aupmanyav, Jun 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
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