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Featured Is the Qur'an Inspired ?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Neuropteron, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Will check it out, and get back to you. :)
     
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  2. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Break it down. Let's talk about just the 13th chapter. This Surah is amazing to me for many reasons. Keep it to that, and let's discuss it. If you are overwhelmed by sheer amount of arguments in Quran, just break it down, focus one chapter. Keep reciting same chapter and reflect over it.
     
  3. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is not one book, it’s several. So to narrow the collection of books down to a single theme is a bit reductive.

    But I suppose taken as a whole, it’s about a people’s relationship with their God; and how that Hebrew story began to be heard throughout the Greco Roman world.
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Who said that?

    before Muhammed, there were Christians called "Abdullah". Abd Allah. So are you saying its still a "New God"? Maybe you should do some research.

    Shahadah does not mean praying "no god but god". Its a fundamental. Not a prayer. Who said that this is a "prayer"?


    Lets take these questions. Yep, afterward the others.

    Please explain your epistemology.
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Can you explain how the Quran would "fail at authenticity"? Is it in relative terms? As in in comparison to the New Testament or the Gospels or something? Or is it in isolation as a book which is not authentic?

    Why?
     
  6. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Well-Known Member

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    ah, ok.

    i’m going to use common views from the Christian religion here:

    if the Bible is the word of God (period)

    and if Jesus was God incarnate (period)

    and if one searched the scriptures to find what Jesus thought about them, you would most likely have the answer, don’t you think?
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    nPeace. Do you think by saying "yes" you have given enough evidence that "Bible originates with the creator and there is convincing evidence within it"?

    Absolutely not.

    Do you have a shred of evidence, that any of the books have any length of adjacency to the prophet or God incarnate in concern as the source of Gods information?

    Please provide evidence.
     
  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The Quran I believe beyond any doubt is the inspired Word of God. Islam began by Prophet Muhammad proclaiming that there is only one God to the Meccans who worshipped some 360 idols which provided great wealth by traders through tributes to these gods. For teaching that there was only one God both He and His followers were tortured, killed, stoned and exiled.

    Eventually, the teaching that there was only one God won over the entire Arabian Peninsula and united the warring tribes into one great nation.

    As well, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad constitute the greatest teachers of Christianity about 1.7 billion people today accept Christ because of the Quran. No Christian preacher has ever converted 1.7 billion people or anywhere near it.

    Another concept, unknown at the time was freedom of religion. Muslims won the right to freedom of worship after many years or persecution and we now see that this concept is now enshrined in the universal declaration of human rights and the cornerstone of democracy.

    The Constitution of Medina was the first constitution in the world that granted religious rights to Jews and Christians.

    The concept the nation state was promulgated by the Quran known as the Ummah. It gave momentum to nation building throughout the world.

    Muslims made many significant contributions to the world in many scientific fields. Things like algebra, medicine, and translations of the works of Plato and Aristotle reached and inspired the west.
     
  9. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    Read the Koran and Jesus was not born in an hollowed out tree. It is about believing in God and knowing that it is about whom he chooses and who he blesses. Not sure why you think that reading both would bring you to any other conclusion than if God is real then only the bible can be correct. As the Koran/Qur'an negates the promises regarding the Son and the covenants about the Messiah, then we cannot believe that both are about the same God.
    More right... is there such a thing? God has so far done all he said he would in the bible. The temple mount in Jerusalem where the Muslims have written in the dome. " God has no son" Do you believe writing that really counts for anything? Jesus said in John 4
    19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.


    20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.


    21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.


    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.


    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.


    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


    The temple of God will be rebuilt in Jerusalem but true worship is not about building any longer. True worship is about Spirit and truth. In Jerusalem the Jews allow all to come and worship with them as God said would happen. But only Muslims allowed in the dome building to pray. So perhaps what we actually know of the bible and the Koran tells us what is truth in the world today.
     
  10. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    It is about knowing the bible, Trailblazer, not just supposing. The bible and today, prove what I have said to be true. God is not a liar and if you realized that saying you are descendant of Ishmael does not make you one. Ishmael was a Jew he was circumcised.

    Mahomet , is the real name.
    He claimed an angel not Gods Holy Spirit was the one who brought him the revelations. God does speak look at Jesus Christ and Moses was the one who wrote the first five books, it is believed. My words are Spirit and they are life. David when he sinned asked God not to take his Spirit from him. If you do not know the bible how can you ever understand the truth it contains which people can make statements and have the bible prove them. This is very important.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Whenever God speaks, He speaks through the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit spoke to the angel Gabriel and that is the medium through which Muhammad received his revelations.
    It might be "believed" that Moses wrote the first five books but that is not a fact.

    Moses
    Many scholars see the biblical Moses as a mythical figure, while retaining the possibility that a Moses-like figure existed.[13][14][15][16] Whomever Moses was, scholars today agree almost unanimously that the Torah is the work of many authors over many centuries.[11] Even among evangelical scholars, the Mosaic authorship is endorsed only by the most conservative among them.[17] Jewish scholars such as Shaye J. D. Cohen and Richard Elliott Friedman also reject the Mosaic authorship.[18][19] Friedman declared "At present, however, there is hardly a biblical scholar in the world actively working on the problem who would claim that the Five Books of Moses were written by Moses — or by any one person."[19][20] Cohen stated about the battle of modern Bible scholars against traditional views of authorship of the Torah: "The great battleground is the Torah (the Pentateuch, the five books of Moses): is the Torah the earliest biblical book, revealed by God to Moses shortly after the Exodus, around 1300-1200 BCE, or one of the latest, not completed until the exilic period – or later? (see Kugel)".[18]
    Mosaic authorship - Wikipedia[/QUOTE]
     
  12. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi Exchemist,
    Hi,
    I cannot speak for others, but I believe the bible is inspired because of the research I did.
    I could also mention personal experience that harmonizes with bible teaching, but that is not a reason for other to believe in the bible. For that reason I do not mention them.
    It's like Mohammad claiming to have seen an angel, that very nice for him, but why should that influence my belief in any way.
    Claims are like opinions and noses, everybody has one.
    After due research things that could influence belief in the bible are
    Prophetic accuracies
    Internal harmony
    Candeur
    Theme.(everything has a relation to the theme.)
    Benefit when bible principles are followed.
    Historical background.
     
  13. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi Whosetosay,
    Hi,
    Thanks for your comments, I completely agree with what you say.

    The bible does not leave room for either another prophet after Christ or a new inspired book before the Millennial reign. According to Revelation this new information will come in the form of scrolls (either literal or figurative).

    However the Qur'an does acknowledges that some of the bible is the word of God. For instance Surah 3:2,NJD says:"He has revealed to you the Book with the truth...for the guidance of men and the distinction between right and wrong. This text is referring to the bible.
    Additionally there is many biblical parallels amongst the OT characters.
    For instance Abraham is mentioned about seventy times in the Qur'an.
    Perhaps for this reason some draw a comparison between the two books.
     
  14. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi Rival,

    It's a straight forward creed: There is no God but [the one] God.

    The problem is that it's only straightforward when we don't think about it.
    For instance: we can only say there is "no King but the King" if there were only one King in the world, because then we would know who we're talking about.
    as soon as there is more than one King we are obligated to specify what King we are talking about.
    eg. "there is no King but Solomon". "there is no Pharaoh but Amenhotep" God, Allah, King and Pharaoh are titles.
    The sentence "there is no "title" but "title" goes against common sense, logic and even plain grammar.
    It should be "there is no "Allah" but "a personal name".
    To sum it up there are many Gods, Allah's, Kings, Pharaohs etc...
    But there is only one Jehovah, Jesus, Solomon, Amenhotep etc...
    The same goes for the Nicene Creed, it makes no sense not only to the Jews but to any rational thinking person.

    As for the Apostles Creed I have to admit ignorance.

    Christendom does many things contrary to Christ's teaching, Repetition in praying is one of them.
    What are the scriptural credentials for a 'messiah' that is a human sacrifice?
    The Prophecies.

    Is having a visitation from an angel on one's way to Damascus enough credential to be considered an apostle?
    You are right, it's not. That's why the disciples were very suspicious. It's what happened afterwards that's important.
    The point is the Angel's appearance only made a difference to Saul not the disciples.

    The Messiah's credentials are the prophecies regarding his arrival, this including the time of his birth. Subsequently the miracles he performed and fulfilling prophecies.

    Judaism, there is no such 'Son of God' concept as one finds in Christianity,
    Actually there is: Job 1:6 "...The sons of the true God entered to take their station...)
    The bible states that Jesus is God's firstborn creation (son) and came to earth to instruct mankind in "all we need".
    If we accept that, why would we need another lower ranking prophet restricted to one nation and one language?
     
  15. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi TheBannerofHomuraAkemi,
    Eze 29 Prophesied a 40 year devastation and desolation not an eternal one. If it had been forever 40 years wouldn't have been mentioned.
    This prophesy was possibly fulfilled in 716-662 BCE when Assyrian King Esar-haddon invaded Egypt and conquered Memphis. In 625 Egypt was defeated again by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar.
     
  16. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi Daniel,
    Thank you.
     
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  17. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi nPeace,
    It's logical that a person born in an Islamic country and has repeated the same mantra day after day would have a very difficult time believing anything else. Repetition when pushed to the extreme is the perfect indoctrination tool.
    Apart from that, why indeed?
     
  18. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    Not what the text says. The text says no man, no beast shall cross the land for forty years. Now point a time in history were that is documented.
     
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Neither has Muhammad or the Quran ever converted 1.7billion people or close to it, but conflating birth rates with conversion rates is a type of dishonesty.
    In my opinion
     
    #39 danieldemol, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  20. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Yes, so you personally may believe the bible is inspired, but you can't offer any reasons to persuade others to join you in that belief. It will be the same with the Koran, I have no doubt.
     
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