is the purpose of scientology to help?

[nlwright]

when i wanted to learn more about chrisitanity, i was given access to their teachings for free. i can download podcasts of sermons for free. i can get a bible for free. if i want to speak to a member of the christian clergy, regardless of denomination, i can do so for free. i can also get counseling from clergy for free. they are more than happy to answer all possible questions i might have about their religion for free. they do this because they wish to help their fellow human beings as christ teaches.

if scientologists are truly trying to help people, why do i have to pay money for it? i suppose you might argue that you can't really run a church for free. i know christians will accept donations and tithe their congregation, but one is not obligated to pay any money to receive the teachings and blessings of christ.

if i want any of the help scientologists offer, it seems i must pay for it and buy books. what gives?

 

[Storm]

I don't know what gives, but the fact that they charge through the nose is certainly a red flag for me.

 

[MSizer]

I think your concern is a perfectly legitimate one, and I don't understand how anyone can espouse the claims of scientology. Belief in supernatural, while I don't share it, I respect it, but L. Ron Hubbard's stories from a few decades ago I can't see any reason for either taking seriously nor even granting respect (on the grounds that a high number of it's former followers are broke or dead before they had to be).

 

[YmirGF]

if i want any of the help scientologists offer, it seems i must pay for it and buy books. what gives?

In all fairness to Scientology you would have to ask them these questions. One explanation I have heard is that they are trying to mirror consumerist expectations in that "you get what you pay for" and if you pay nothing then you really shouldn't expect a lot. You could always get a copy of Dianetics from the local library... although I'd prefer to crawl over a field of broken glass...

 

[Wandered Off]

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[themadhair]

The reason for the prices is due to a concept in Scientology called ‘the exchange’. A person must balance inflow with outflow. Due to the high value place upon Scientology texts (spiritual salvation and all that) it is necessary for the Scientologist in question to balance his/her inflow with the appropriate monetary equivalent in outflow.

Deep philosophical insight or justification for robbing people?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You can find plenty of information about Scientology online, and small amount from the South Park episode "Trapped in the Closet."
L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, has been quoted as saying "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is."

 

[pj8008]

A great deal of Scientology practice can be done for free or for very little money at all.

Steps on 'The Bridge' (google image Scientology Bridge) cost money because the person who will be helping you along (called an Auditor) is extensively trained to a very high level, often taking multiple years to complete to a sufficient standard, thus it is only fair that they be paid for their commitment and expertise, just as you would pay a greater deal of money for a highly trained lawyer than you would a student lawyer.


That being said, you CAN enlist the help of a student auditor to help you along, and this is usually free or you can train to be a professional yourself.

Whilst I don't know if its true or not that L. Ron Hubbard said "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is." - that certainly doesnt stand today seeing as he died in the 1980's. What are known as "The Basic Books of Dianetics and Scientology" are more than likely freely available at your local library and contain everything the rest of Scientology is based on anyway.

 

[themadhair]

A great deal of Scientology practice can be done for free or for very little money at all.
…
What are known as "The Basic Books of Dianetics and Scientology" are more than likely freely available at your local library and contain everything the rest of Scientology is based on anyway.

Two points:
1) Despite all those donation drives for those library campaigns it seems that most libraries haven’t received them. Which seems odd. (and for reference I know at least one mission holder who found it very surprising that my local library hasn’t received a single book)
2) Getting all the basics books, lectures and congresses will only set you back $5,953.75 according to the June ’09 ASHO price list I have. Doesn’t include auditing or any of the courses need to get up to clear.

 

[pj8008]

1 - True, my local library hadn't recieved any, a bigger library near to me had, but refused to put them out on display haha, The library campaign is an International Association of Scientologists campaign, whether you choose to be part of that group or not is up to the individual.

2 - I got all the basic books second hand from Amazon.com, all hardbacks together set me back about £20 with postage, as for the lectures and congresses: download them. Anonymous has leaked them all. You'd never be asked to take your own lecture pack into the church as their library would have copies of them all anyway.
(also AOSHs charge 10% more than regular churches)

 

[themadhair]

I have to say I’m amazed that a Scientologist would recommend downloading anonymous leaked materials. Good to see it though so I’ll not be complaining about it.

For note, if you are going through the basics & congresses on your own then you probably come under the title FreeZone in that instance. You can’t do courses (with the exception of the extension courses) at home if you want to gain recognition from the church itself. And those materials (such as the grades for example) can’t be bought over Amazon either. Buying materials of folks who aren’t Scientologists in good standing has always been a bit of a no-no.

To my knowledge the entirety of what you need to go clear has been leaked. The majority of what you need to get to OT3 has been leaked too but there are few gaps here and there.

With the exception of the e-meter, the Ron mag series and about 17-odd SHSBC lectures – the entirety of that June 2009 price list has been leaked.

 

[Humanistheart]

Yes, to help themselves to your money.

 

[nlwright]

so even though it might be possible to access the services and theology of scientology through creative means, the official line remains that i must fork over what appears to be, according to some of the replies i have read, a fairly substantial amount of money.

also , even though the auditors are allegedly highly trained at what they do i would like to point out that priests, pastors, rabbis, imams etc. are also very highly trained. many have phds. these same people are willing to tell me anything i would like to know about their faiths for free. and if i cannot get a copy of their scriptures for free i could probably buy one for about $25-$50 (far less than the $5,000 plus cited here).

if scientologists do have a "you get what you pay for" mentality, do they in turn believe that the teachings of christ (available for free), or any other of the world's religions, are worthless?

also someone pointed out that to be fair i should pose these questions to scientologists. i think that's an excellent suggestion. i was in fact trying to do so and thought i might find some scientologists here. ARE there any scientoligists in this forum? was i perhaps mistaken? if so can anyone recommend a forum where i might find them?

 

[themadhair]

if so can anyone recommend a forum where i might find them?

Best I can offer is Freezone - Ex Scientologist Message Board

 

[Ben Dhyan]

To my knowledge the entirety of what you need to go clear has been leaked. The majority of what you need to get to OT3 has been leaked too but there are few gaps here and there.

With the exception of the e-meter, the Ron mag series and about 17-odd SHSBC lectures – the entirety of that June 2009 price list has been leaked.

Hi themadhair, the theory is one thing, but there is much more to the Church of Scientology than that. As with Christian churches, there is much more to it than the bible, there are initiations such as baptism, confirmation, etc., and rituals, which work to bring about the establishment of Egregores, ie. collective group mind.

So for example one of the first initiations of becoming a Scientologist is to successfully undergo TR0 (training routine 0) which requires the newbie to sit opposite and confront a 'Clear'/'OT' coach and to hold eye contact for a minimum of one hour and maybe more without blinking, facial, or any body movements. Not until this can be accomplished can the student move onto TR1, ....and so it goes on. If you wonder why many Scientologists seem to have that spaced out glassy eyed look,.. well it didn't come from just intellectual understanding of theoretical material!

Yes, a lot of the training material can be gotten online for free or second hand at a greatly reduced price on ebay, etc.,... even e-meters.

 

[themadhair]

Hi themadhair, the theory is one thing, but there is much more to the Church of Scientology than that. As with Christian churches, there is much more to it than the bible, there are initiations such as baptism, confirmation, etc., and rituals, which work to bring about the establishment of Egregores, ie. collective group mind.

Curiously I think most ex-members would strongly disagree with you on that one. In a Christian church they is usually a lot emphasis on community and similar values, and there really doesn’t seem to the similar experience in Scientology. The banning of verbal tech being one such example of why the analogy doesn’t hold.

So for example one of the first initiations of becoming a Scientologist is to successfully undergo TR0

Not strictly true. The regular non-bridge courses (Personal Integrity & Ethics, How to Start a Successful Marriage, etc.) don’t have these and a lot of the routes onto the bridge (such as the Dianetics Auditor route) don’t either. Routes onto the bridge that do have it include the Success Through Communication course and the Qualified Scientologist course. Although after the purification rundown the student would be instructed to the TR’s and Objectives course before they would be allowed to progress any further.

If you wonder why many Scientologists seem to have that spaced out glassy eyed look,.. well it didn't come from just intellectual understanding of theoretical material!

This is true. The TR’s and drills really do bring out this effect. TR4 bullbait is particularly good at getting this look.

Fizzle wizzle bum crumb I guess.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Actually TR4 is Full Comm. Cycle, and TR0BB is TR0 Bullbait. Personally it was TR0 Confront that IMO was the most trying, my eyes began watering after the first 20 minutes or so but managed to complete it first time without restarts. Bullbait IMO is a breeze in comparison though in retrospect it probably is not wise to passively allow oneself to be humiliated like that, nor for that matter to provoke the other.

On topic though, it is my understanding that it was due to the success of LRH's book Dianetics that the idea to form a religion based on it arose. And from there, whatever potential the theory behind dianetics may have had to help, in practice it seems that this potential was compromised as the Church became a hugely successful money making concern.

 

[pj8008]

Hey themadhair.

i'm not reccomending downloading anonymous leaks if you can afford to buy them from the church. However, some people cant afford what the church is asking and from a scientologists point of view surely its better to have the religious materials than to not have them at all.

As for buying books from Amazon etc, a few people in my local org did the same and no one seems to mind haha, again its better to have the basics despite the source than to not have them at all.

I appreciate that you can't buy the grades etc over the internet, but its not all about having the check-sheet, you need an auditor too, and you certainly can't get those over amazon haha, so while the check-sheets may have been leaked, theyre pretty useless if you don't have a qualified auditor to work with you on them.

 

[themadhair]

Actually TR4 is Full Comm. Cycle, and TR0BB is TR0 Bullbait.

Sorry about that. Don’t know why I put bullbait after TR4. TR4 really does get folks to zone out by ‘handling originations’ as it were. It allows folks to talk to you without hearing anything you are saying.
My favourite originations from that course are:
Fizzle wizzle bum crumb.
We are all dead.
Is this room rocking.
My head feels lopsided.

On topic though, it is my understanding that it was due to the success of LRH's book Dianetics that the idea to form a religion based on it arose.

Some very prominent ex-members (Larry Breannan springs to mind) tell a very different story. Hubbard’s first venture, under the title of ‘Hubbard Dianetic Foundation’, went bankrupt in 1952. AFAIK it was due to been sued for practicing medicine without a licence that caused the bankruptcy. The second incarnation, under the name Scientology, may have been as a religion to avoid a similar fate.

I appreciate that you can't buy the grades etc over the internet, but its not all about having the check-sheet, you need an auditor too, and you certainly can't get those over amazon haha, so while the check-sheets may have been leaked, theyre pretty useless if you don't have a qualified auditor to work with you on them.

There are plenty of FreeZoners out there charging much less than the church that are eager for the business. Some of these chaps are ex-members who got well up the training side of the bridge too.