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Is the Name / Word Lucifer ever mentioned in the Quran or Judaic texts?

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
We know the word is used in Christian scripture . . . what about in Muslim and Judaic scripture?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Judaic scripture is in Hebrew or Aramaic so asking about the English word doesn't make much sense.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Judaic scripture is in Hebrew or Aramaic so asking about the English word doesn't make much sense.
Lucifer is a Latin word. The Tanakh was completed in 450 BC / Talmud 200 AD, Islamic scriptures began in 700 AD.
Lucifer is mentioned in Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Lucifer is a Latin word. The Tanakh was completed in 450 BC / Talmud 200 AD, Islamic scriptures began in 700 AD.
Lucifer is mentioned in Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.
OK, so? The Tanach and Talmud were not written in Latin. So asking if a Latin word appears in non-Latin texts seems a bit weird. Does the word "praefectus" appear in the Constitution?
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Lucifer as as a word doesn't exist until Latin copies of the Christian bible do. הילל בן שחר (hêlêl ben šāḥar) is the only mention in Isaiah in a taunt by an oracle vs the dead king of Babylon. However, that reference is to a man not some fallen angel. :) There is some discrepancy about who this king is as well... :p It literally means "morning star" or "son of dawn" and in this instance is used as a metaphor mocking a dead king about how great he once was and how terrible he was when he died.

Latin makes it even more confusing... Used as an adjective it is a reference to The Moon, and used as a noun it is a reference to Venus. (Sharing an attribution with the Greeks in Phosphorus) It has been used as the name of saints throughout history so the Lucifer=Devil connotation is purely the product of Christian revisionism. Although the word Lucifer is used in the gospels I find it lacking any authority as far as historical references go. Everything that you could read before the revision of KJV and whatnot would indicate this was never a conventional use of the term.

I'm not aware of any references in the Quran because it doesn't borrow from the OT or NT.

The historical use of the word Lucifer is basically undefined -- there is no concord in terms of the meaning of the term. It only solidifies in any way in the modern context.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
OK, so? The Tanach and Talmud were not written in Latin. So asking if a Latin word appears in non-Latin texts seems a bit weird. Does the word "praefectus" appear in the Constitution?
The English versions of the New Testament have the word . . . that is what I am asking.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Lucifer is a Latin word. The Tanakh was completed in 450 BC / Talmud 200 AD, Islamic scriptures began in 700 AD.
Lucifer is mentioned in Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.
Plato does not use the word Lucifer. The word Plato uses is ἑωσφόρος (eosphoros,) which is then translated as "lucifer."

See this Greek-English parallel translation of the passage of Timaeus in question here:
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/physis/plato-timaeus/time.asp?pg=2
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
If you are interested, in Buddhist Pali Suttas, sukka-tārakā (Bright Star) or osadhi-tārakā (Medicine Star or Healing Star) is referred to and translated into English as "Morning Star." It is equated with metta (loving-kindness,) and is also used in reference to the dawning of enlightenment via awareness-release of goodwill.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
We know the word is used in Christian scripture . . . what about in Muslim and Judaic scripture?

As most have already said - Lucifer is not in Tanakh.

For some reason they think Isaiah 14 is about a devil character.

It is actually about a King of Babylon.

They translate a title of that King - into Lucifer - and run with it as a name of the devil.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven/a great height, (hêylêl) bright star, son of the dawn! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

It says it comes from hayah, - so perhaps we could use Bright Rising Star, - Son of the Dawn.

They turned hêylêl into Lucifer.

I actually find it interesting that some of the language is basically the same as we would use today.

We call people that have reached the top - stars.

A person that has climbed to a great height - often gets cut down to the ground.



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