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Is The Hell Fire Justice

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ~Amin~, Aug 30, 2007.

  1. ~Amin~

    ~Amin~ God is the King

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    God Almighty speakes to mankind through revelation
    and He inspires people to the truth, and guides them
    to the truth, wether they accept or not is there choice,
    if God MADE them to submit then wheres the free will?.
     
  2. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Alrighty then:areyoucra
     
  3. Reverend Rick

    Reverend Rick Frubal Whore
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    Revelation 20:10-15

    And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it. From whose face the earth and heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
     
  4. Darkness

    Darkness Psychoanalyst/Marxist

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    I only remember Pharoah not wanting to let the Israelis leave Egypt. The civilians where never offered this choice, yet they were punished and tortured anyway. Every first-born in Egypt was murdered, yet many of them were probably infants. Why didn't God just smite Pharoah and teleport the Israelis out of Egypt?

    I do have a question, to ask of you nicely. In Exodus it says:

    Exodus 4:21 (King James Version)
    And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

    Does the Hebrew back this conclusion up? Does it truly mean that God is forcing Pharoah to defy Him?
     
  5. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    In the Chumash it is said that Israel is Gods firstborn, Moshe is told to warn Pharaoh that if he did not release His firstborn, He god would kill the first born of Egypt. If you hadn't noticed God knows the heart of man and knew what this man would choose, he then told Moshe what was to ensue.
    No! God does not force Pharaoh to defy him in order to kill his firstborn! But he knows what choice Pharaoh wil make.
    Yes God could have done as you suggest, then you and I would be justified in saying God allowed this to happen and he could have stopped it! But God is not doing every action that man does! He is not moving man around like chess pieces. Man can and does choose his poision. A believer can ask for intervention in his behalf, but that same believer can't ask and get god to murder your enemy! God says to love your enemy! If you ask God's favor upon your enemy, he will preserve that ones life as the believer asks and two mitzvot are then fulfilled.
    God may send Hornets upon that enemy to cause him to move from the believers path.
    Everyone is given a choice, you can either choose to live or to die! But, you can't say God made me do it!
    You must remember that men wrote the bible. Then men have translated it. And men have chosen glaring errors and put them as the word of God! If you want to blame God for anything, blame him for not striking dead every ADDER who changed the word of God! This statement proves God is not wicked. And since there is no "Everburning Hell" He is not sending anyone to that ungodly place, but He does say to EVERYONE!
    You have a choice, you can choose to live by my word and do good for the world or you can choose to go it alone. In the latter case you will die.
    But, you have chosen! So do not compound the issue with supposed lies. Get the truth then you will have a leg to stand on.

    Shalom/Peace

    Baruch Ha’ba B’Shem Adonai
    Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
     
  6. Darkness

    Darkness Psychoanalyst/Marxist

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    This discussion cannot produce any more fruits Ronald.
     
  7. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Too Hot to Handle!

    Nice talking to you.

    Shalom u'vrachot
     
  8. ~Amin~

    ~Amin~ God is the King

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    Peace
    dear friend
    what do you say about the other versions of the
    Holy Bible which clearly state hell?
    and also the word Gehenna in hebrew,or
    gehennem in arabic or turkish linguistically
    mean hell fire.
    Peace
     
  9. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    What a strange subject......you do realize it will hit earth and people will be burned next to you according to what is written?

    There is no burning soil (sheol = hell) there are burning people when the sun blows up (a guess from what is written)....that is set to occur in 2012, cross referenced by NASA and Mayan predictions of the end of our sun.....so why or what reasoning would you have in wishing this?

    Me personally would rather fix peoples and try too help…..:angel2:
     
  10. Azakel

    Azakel Liebe ist für alle da

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    Mayans never said anything about the Sun blowing up, it was the end of the world as we KNOW it, doesn't mean being destroyed. And NASA has said nothing on the Sun going bang in 2012, all fact say the Sun will still last a lot long then 5 more years.
     
  11. Darkness

    Darkness Psychoanalyst/Marxist

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    No, I am merely getting no more useful information out of our debating back and forth.
     
  12. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Gehenna is a trash dump in the first century that never stopped smoldering.
    Tartaroo is the final koshering of theHeavens and the Earth with fervant heat!
    Hell in the Greek Phylosophy was the holding pen for lost souls! If your God is Greek, then you need to worry about Hell! My God is the God of Israel and I will go to hell/she'ol/grave when I die and have the promise of eternal life from Yeshua the Messiah sent in the Shem/name of God. So where ever I am at the Koshering of the heavens and the Earth, not one hair upon my head will feel heat.
    The Greeks have an immortal soul which will either go to heaven or burn in Hell forever! How ungodly!!!!!!! If I were in your shoes I'd head for the Hebrew God and beg for forgivness.

    Baruch Ha’ba B’Shem Adonai
    Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD! [Ps 118:26 NKJV]
     
  13. ~Amin~

    ~Amin~ God is the King

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    Thats fine if yoy dont want to answer the basic questions.
    THAT SOUNDS A BIT RACIST TO ME,
    THE MOST NOBLE OF YOU IN THE
    SIGHT OF GOD IS THE MOST RIGHTEOUS (not a certain race)
    QUR'AN 49,14.
    So ill kindly suggest you to read the Qur'an.
    Peace
     
  14. Darkness

    Darkness Psychoanalyst/Marxist

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    Ronalds's God is infinitely more merciful than your God, ~Amin~.
     
  15. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    I believe our minds can't comprehend what Justice really is for those who seemingly go through life rejecting the one who created us for himself ,which is for his pleasure and companionship.
    To God, it's his love, patience and grace that restrains his hand of judgement to touch us today.
    But, we continue to elevate ourselves above creator God in this life through our limited knowledge and wisdom of what is beyond the grave,what is it we should be allowed to do in this life and then somhow think we really
    have the right to tell an all knowing ,all powerful God what is and what should be.

    Things like ,i'll tell him when I see him" ,Well ,I don't want to go to place where God will be if he sends his people to hell" etc etc

    We live in the here and now, the temporal,he lives outside of time, the eternal.
    Trusting in our senses ,arrogant notions and finite ideas of what God should or should'nt do concerning our salvation ,judgement only percipatates our rebellion ,disobedience, with no idea of what justice really is and what awaits them that wilfully choose to defy ,justify ,excuse a Hioly God.
    It's not his nature or intent to send us to hell , that is why we are still breathing, it is by his own very nature ,that being Holiness ,that he says will not allow sin to co -exist with him in his presence.

    That is deep ,we can't comprehend how Holy God is and how utterly unholy we are ,that is why we can arrogantly protest about such topics.
    So when Jesus looks at a born again Christian who has trusted that Jesus shed his blood to redeem him and that person accepts him as his savior,then and only then can God accept that person ,because he see's that man through the blood of Jesus and see's it is his blood that has made that man Holy enough to enter God's kingdom

    Man has chosen to follow after their lusts and desires and reject the God who will recompense us for every word,thought deed.
     
  16. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    Roli,

    "2. O SON OF SPIRIT!
    The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."
    (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

    Since Thou hast revealed Thy grace, O my God, deter not Thy servants from directing their eyes towards it. Consider not, O my God, their estate, and their concerns and their works. Consider the greatness of Thy glory, and the plenteousness of Thy gifts, and the power of Thy might, and the excellence of Thy favors. I swear by Thy glory! Wert Thou to look upon them with the eye of justice, all would deserve Thy wrath and the rod of Thine anger. Hold Thou Thy creatures, O my God, with the hands of Thy grace, and make Thou known unto them what is best for them of all the things that have been created in the kingdom of Thine invention.
    (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 31)

    Regards,

    Scott
     
  17. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    And telling me to read the Qur'an is not racist?
    Many of your Religious Leaders say that your God is the same God! If that is so then 600CE is even a bit later than Christianity, who claim the same God, it was around 200CE when they became Hellenized, dumping the root of their religion, the Hebrew God. Clearly if the God of Avraham is the God of Mohammad, then like the Christians the Muslims decided to change the Word of God to fit their way of life.
    Well whatever type Adder you are, the resulting religion is not the way of the God of the Hebrews!
    Torah is not a religion, but a Way of Life!

    Whoever strays from Torah has lost his way!

    BTW, since you read from the bottom of my post you missed the answer to your question.

    Shalom
     
  18. ~Amin~

    ~Amin~ God is the King

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    Are you sure you know what
    your on about this time you
    made too many huge blunders ,
    to br taken seriously.
     
  19. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Because justice is the correct application of the law.
     
  20. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Can you elaborate on this using scripture as a basis for your undestanding?
     
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