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Is the grace and power of God required to live righteously?

Hope

Princesinha
Well said! Those who think they are "righteous" without actually employing what the scripture says in detail about what it entails are probably all the more likely to actually go sin, thinking that they are "righteous" without having a set rubric of what it even means.

This goes well with what I say that "Christians" who go by the OSAS mentality are all the more likely to be immoral than even Atheists because they think in fact that they have some kind of get out of hell free card.

Sadly, this is true in many cases, even though I have no idea what an "OSAS mentality" is. However, any Christian with a deeper understanding of Scripture realizes that God's grace is not a license to sin but empowerment to abstain from sin.
 

Rocky S

Christian Goth
What about the option that says you're wrong? What made Job righteous?
Greeting Sleepy to answer the question about what made Job righteous. I will attempt to give a definitive and clear answer. Faith is what made Job righteous which is the only thing that makes one righteous. And about what started this thread, the word grace biblically means unmerited and undeserved favor of God. The importance of combining the two words righteouss and grace as it pertains Job is this. Grace is giving through faith which in turn declares someone righteous. Being righteous from a theological stand point means, being declared in right standing with God by Grace through faith. In every dispensation in the Bible, faith is always the means for righteousness. The object of that faith has and always will be Christ and him crucified, but that is a whole other topic.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
What about the option that says you're wrong?

about what specifically and in what specific way am I wrong? There are many opinions that say I am wrong about many things, some of them must be right! :D

What made Job righteous?

Nothing if you don´t trust the bible as the infalible word of God. If you do, then god made Job righteous when he was boasting to Satan saying "look! Look how rigtheous he is!" This is what made Satan tell God "He is just rigtheous cause you give him cool stuff. Let me mess him up a bit and you´ll see how he curses you"
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Greeting Sleepy to answer the question about what made Job righteous. I will attempt to give a definitive and clear answer. Faith is what made Job righteous which is the only thing that makes one righteous. And about what started this thread, the word grace biblically means unmerited and undeserved favor of God. The importance of combining the two words righteouss and grace as it pertains Job is this. Grace is giving through faith which in turn declares someone righteous. Being righteous from a theological stand point means, being declared in right standing with God by Grace through faith. In every dispensation in the Bible, faith is always the means for righteousness. The object of that faith has and always will be Christ and him crucified, but that is a whole other topic.

Thank you, Rocky. So.. Me Myself, it was the option you left out.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Thank you, Rocky. So.. Me Myself, it was the option you left out.

The problem with this, is that I can have faith that God exists and curse him.

Satan´s wage was that Job would curse God.

Obviously, he needs to believe in God to curse him, so it doesn´t seem to be about faith at all.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The problem with this, is that I can have faith that God exists and curse him.

Satan´s wage was that Job would curse God.

Obviously, he needs to believe in God to curse him, so it doesn´t seem to be about faith at all.

Faith in who God is.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
came across this excellent post in another thread

Some of these verses are fine and all. But what do you really expect people to do when you say 'taking up the cross of Jesus and following him'?
Also, I have to ask. Is it unfathomable that some people consider their life to be good? and more importantly: that they consider it vital for them to be the sole decision makers in their lives?
In addition, what does it mean to oppose this message?
 

Shermana

Heretic
Because I don't have to work so hard to please God!! My acceptance is not based on anything I do or don't do, but on the righteousness of Christ alone. And that is a massive load off one's back!

Ah, so you think you don't have to do anything except claim to believe in Jesus as Lord and Christ? Even Paul disagrees. Paul says that there is in fact a set of standards you have to obey. He clearly points out that unrepentant sinners will not enter the kingdom. How does that jive?
 

Shermana

Heretic
Sadly, this is true in many cases, even though I have no idea what an "OSAS mentality" is. However, any Christian with a deeper understanding of Scripture realizes that God's grace is not a license to sin but empowerment to abstain from sin.

And what is the definition of Sin?

(Hint: 1 John 3:4)

Lawlessness. As in that which goes against the commandments.

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved.

Notice in 1 John 2 that it says those who claim to know Jesus but don't obey his commandments are "Liars".

Who do you think these "liars" are?

What's the point of abstaining from "sin" (lawlessness) if you're already saved?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Because I don't have to work so hard to please God!! My acceptance is not based on anything I do or don't do, but on the righteousness of Christ alone. And that is a massive load off one's back!

You dont have to do anything for God to love you. He loves everybody.

Now if you want to be useful towards PEOPLE then rigtheousness is the answer.

It´s about compassion. Aiding others because they need it. Not because God is going to reward you or accept you for it.
 

Hope

Princesinha
Ah, so you think you don't have to do anything except claim to believe in Jesus as Lord and Christ? Even Paul disagrees. Paul says that there is in fact a set of standards you have to obey. He clearly points out that unrepentant sinners will not enter the kingdom. How does that jive?

Ah, ok...now we're getting into the whole faith/works debate. Gotcha. If you want to go there, we can, however, I have a feeling that argument will get us nowhere.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Ah, ok...now we're getting into the whole faith/works debate. Gotcha. If you want to go there, we can, however, I have a feeling that argument will get us nowhere.

It will get you nowhere if you don't actually go by what the scriptures say if you claim to go by the scriptures and you try to use cherry picked verses out of context to negate what it plainly says or redefine it.

But sure, go there, it's part and parcel to the subject of the OP really.
 

Hope

Princesinha
And what is the definition of Sin?

(Hint: 1 John 3:4)

Lawlessness. As in that which goes against the commandments.

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved.

Notice in 1 John 2 that it says those who claim to know Jesus but don't obey his commandments are "Liars".

Who do you think these "liars" are?

What's the point of abstaining from "sin" (lawlessness) if you're already saved?

Ok, well I guess I am an "OSAS" subscribing Christian, and apparently you are not. That's fine.

The point of abstaining from sin once you're saved is to bring honor and glory to the One Who saved you....not out of a sense of duty, but out of a sense of love. Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments. Those who don't truly love and know Christ will have no desire to abstain from sin---those that do, will. True faith will automatically bring about good works...read the book of James.

If we can't trust Jesus to save us once and for all, and must still rely upon our own good works to get us to heaven, then He died in vain.
 
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