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Is the following relationship of Science, Mathematics, Philosophy and Religion true?

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards

Interesting observation. Dont think there is a debate. They are all true just you put it more poetically than I would find in math, history, or philosophy book even.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
About the OP, I would need some elaboration on the meanings of "child" for some meaningful discussion to be possible.

Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

Science is made possible and necessary by the combination of rational thought and an observable, discernible reality. Any sentient being will develop some measure of science simply because he happens to have the ability to make models of reality and put those through testing of some kind.

Science does benefit from Mathematics because it is such a marvelously useful technique. But Math probably developed (at least significantly) later than science.

Math is a human creation, a particularly useful one, based on the need to create models to represent reaiity.

Philosophy is the unavoidable consequence of the ability of maintaining abstract thought.

And religion... religion is all but impossible to define in a consensual way really. My personal preference is to define it as the expression of the need for virtue. But I do not acknowledge too much of what is often called "religion" as being religion in truth.
 

Deathbydefault

Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards

All four are human made, but your argument is interesting.
Science and math are both products of the truth section, and, depending on your definition, science comes first.
Philosophy and religion are products of the speculation section, though philosophy certainly came first.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Historically, religion and math came first (the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians had both religion and math), followed by philosophy and science (the ancient Greeks invented philosophy, and science in the modern sense was invented about 500 years ago in Southern and Western Europe).
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Historically, religion and math came first (the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians had both religion and math), followed by philosophy and science (the ancient Greeks invented philosophy, and science in the modern sense was invented about 500 years ago in Southern and Western Europe).

Really? Source?
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Multiple sources over the years. It's pretty much common knowledge. Google these things!

I did that's why I asked. Lol. Said Egypt had philosopher from 2800 B.C.E. (around same time as its religion / mathematics were coming about).

My historical order, from what I've learned, is: theology (religion), philosophy, math, science
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
There seems to be an awful lot of confusion about what philosophy is. I suspect most of us see it as merely a highly speculative activity. But while it has traditionally gone through periods of gross speculation, that's not its core, its essence.

Philosophy, in the Western sense, begins with Thales of Miletus, who lived around 500 B.C. What distinguishes his speculations about the cosmos from religious speculations about the cosmos is that Thales seems to have insisted that the cosmos be explained in natural terms. Natural causes for natural things.

From Thales on, philosophy evolves into a discipline based on the principle that any and all philosophical propositions must be rational. That is, they must be well grounded in logic and reason.

You can think of philosophy as a sort of game. The goal of the game is to see how far you can push logic and reason by applying them to one thing after another (e.g. Can you apply logic and reason to the question of whether or not god exists? If so, what do you come up with as a result of that application? Or, can you apply logic and reason to the question of how to live the good life? If so, what do you come up with?).

The only rule of the game is that your thinking must be logical and reasonable.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I did that's why I asked. Lol. Said Egypt had philosopher from 2800 B.C.E. (around same time as its religion / mathematics were coming about).

My historical order, from what I've learned, is: theology (religion), philosophy, math, science

Acim, I guess it comes down to how you define "philosophy". I myself make a distinction between wisdom literature, like the very early Maxims of Ptahhotep, and Western philosophy, as invented by Thales and others. The Maxims are much, much earlier than Thales, but are not, in my book, philosophy.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Acim, I guess it comes down to how you define "philosophy". I myself make a distinction between wisdom literature, like the very early Maxims of Ptahhotep, and Western philosophy, as invented by Thales and others. The Maxims are much, much earlier than Thales, but are not, in my book, philosophy.

I would also think it depends on how you define "math."

Sources I find say religion goes back to 300,000 B.C. (based on idea of burials of homo sapiens)
That math goes back 20,000 years ago cause some dude made tally marks on a bone. Otherwise, mathematical texts are found from around 2000 B.C.
Philosophy is thought to go back to prehistoric times, but the 2800 B.C. is perhaps more accurate date.
Science was invented by some guy named Todd in 1982. (Still trying to source this one)
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I would also think it depends on how you define "math."

True. The discovery of the Pythagorean theorem by the Egyptians is, for me, and early example of math. I see tally marks on a bone as mere arithmetic.

Philosophy is thought to go back to prehistoric times, but the 2800 B.C. is perhaps more accurate date.

Again, I see the 2800 B.C. date as marking wisdom literature, rather than the advent of philosophy. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Science was invented by some guy named Todd in 1982. (Still trying to source this one)

:D
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards

"Science" is still a very recent invention and our understanding of it originates from the 18th and 19th centuries. To some extent our current understanding of what science is is very much a 20th century invention due to Karl Popper and debates over Scientism and what is an isn't Science. The distinction between Science and Philosophy didn't really emerge until the late 19th century (and is to some extent a by-product of the professionalisation and institutionalisation of Science meaning that we adopted a rather fixed methodology. Before then, Science and Philosophy were combined in "natural philosophy" which later evolved into "natural science".

The relationship between Science and Relgion goes back via philosophy. You can trace the roots of "natural science" through "natural philosophy" to "natural theology", where people sought to provide evidence for the existence of god and creation. The idea that science and religion are intrinisically opposed is a 19th century idea with a very superfical reading of the history of science as characterised by conflict. This view is highly selective and focuses on Gallileo and Darwin, but ignores a much bigger picture of collaboration between Science and Religion.

the Anti-Philosophical approach is therefore a very western approach to Science. In the Soviet case the role of Philosophy and Ideology took centre stage and much more closely resembles 19th century attitudes to science. So there isn't a simple relationship. This Anti-Philosophical approach to Science ("Scientific Realism") means that superifcally philosophical disputes appear to be settled, but some would argue against that view taking an anti-realist view which challanging the underlying assumptions of methodological naturalism (like the Soviets, but Creationists and Intelligent Design also). These challanges are often characterised as "Anti-Science" when they are more often "Anti-Realist" and simply represent the older, more philosophical approach to Science breaking through the established consensus.

Certain aspects of Science are a product of Mathematics in terms of Newtionian Mechanics, but Mathamatics has taken on a whole new meaning since Einstien and the development of Quantum Mechanics. Mathamatics has been used defacto as an attempt to establish the existence of the universe and at times more closely resembles philosophy rather than "science" in the way we understand the universe (e.g. multi-verse theorum, dark energy and dark matter, etc). It is often simply assumed that mathamatical equations reflect the processes the occur in the Universe (going back to Newton) and some would call this a dogmatic and even anti-scientific approach. The "Einsteinian" Revolution unsettled most of the underlying assumptions that were present in Newtonian Mechanics and has unravelled many of the certainites in scientific thinking- re-opening philosophical questions on the nature of matter, space, time etc that would have been considered "settled" in the late 19th century.

The above view, is however a heretical one (and is a product of my sympathies for the philosophical approach of Soviet Science and sympathy for 19th century "natural philosophy" and "natural theology") and would be considered "Anti-Science" in certain circles. hopefully a few may appreciate that philosophical controversies arising from Science are far from settled and that we face a number of challanges in studying the physical world that demand a re-examination of what we can and cannot prove via the scientific method.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards
No. They are independent and separate disciplines. Maths has nothing to do with philosophy and neither has much to do with religion. But one can philosophize about anything, so both philosophy of science and philosophy of religion are valid disciplines. But so is psychology of religion etc.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards
No.

The scope of science is very vast and it includes the branch of mathematics and philosophy (but not religion). Science is the Superset of mathematics not a child or subset of mathematics (as you have mentioned). Mathematics is a great tool and it helps science in predicting future outcomes and solving problems along with practical experiments or observable phenomenon in nature, it helps to keep science in right track.

Science definition =>the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
Definition of Mathematics =>the abstract science of number, quantity, and space, either as abstract concepts (pure mathematics ), or as applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering ( applied mathematics ).

Even, a person with out much mathematical knowledge can contribute to science.
Mathematics and Philosophy are unrelated terms -but since mathematics is a tool contributing to multiple disciplines or science, it may contribute to the branch of philosophy as well.

Religion has nothing to do with Philosophy, mathematics and science and it is not science at all.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Science is the child of Mathematics.
Mathematics is the child of Philosophy.
Philosophy is the child of Religion.

And one's arguments, evidences and sources are welcome here.
Regards

Philosophy started it all. The founders of each of the others started as Philosophers first. It was only after their work was accepted and more people followed the practices that the sciences and religions came about.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If guess in my bonker, religion came first. A need to find solace of the origin of the universe doesnt need math, science, and philosophy. Id say math and philosophy kinda go side and side. I dont remember Arostle and Sacrates separating mathematics from his philosophical ponderings of medicine. Then I think science became a separate displine (no philosophy) after that.

No research. Just using my noodle to piece what may have been common sense in human evolution of change, study, and wonder.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
If guess in my bonker, religion came first. A need to find solace of the origin of the universe doesnt need math, science, and philosophy. Id say math and philosophy kinda go side and side. I dont remember Arostle separating mathematics from his philosophical ponderings of medicine. Then I think science became a separate displine (no philosophy) after that.

No research. Just using my noodle to piece what may have been common sense in humn evolution of change, study, and wonder.

A need to find our place in the origin of the universe is the root of Philosophy. Religion is the practice of what you discover. Religion could only come first if God gave it to you and all of currently practiced religions go back no more than 2000 years. Humans have been alive over 100000 years.

Edit should be 4000 years. My bad math 1500 bc is the oldest currently
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
A need to find our place in the origin of the universe is the root of Philosophy. Religion is the practice of what you discover. Religion could only come first if God gave it to you and all of currently practiced religions go back no more than 2000 years. Humans have been alive over 100000 years.

Edit should be 4000 years. My bad math 1500 bc is the oldest currently

If you take god/s out the picture, then I see what you mean. Probably religion and philosophy went hand in hand. We started practicing religion before we started philosophizing about it.
 
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