Is the Christian God the same as the Jewish God?

[rosends]

Interesting, but I don't know enough t be able to follow this without further explanation. I wasn't aware there was a god incarnation in either Judaism or Islam. Can you explain what this is?

I'm just trying to find a way to label the "God" from the "God idea" (the character from the characteristics). I don't mean "incarnation" as per the literal "i n the flesh" meaning of the word.

 

[rosends]

I believe I am not familiar with any statements in the Qu'ran that say something didn't happen as the OT said it did. Of course Hadiths might but they are bogus anyway.

Doesn't Islam say that Ishma'el was offered as a sacrifice and not Isaac?

 

[Rival]

Doesn't Islam say that Ishma'el was offered as a sacrifice and not Isaac?

Islamic tradition says this but it's not actually in the Qur'an, iirc.

 

[DKH]

Is the Christian God the same as the Jewish God?

In my opinion, No!

The Old Testament God (Israelite God) is singular in essence and authority and has no equal…Yet, the Christian God is considered either triune or dual, depending on which group may be reviewed.

 

[exchemist]

I'm just trying to find a way to label the "God" from the "God idea" (the character from the characteristics). I don't mean "incarnation" as per the literal "i n the flesh" meaning of the word.

OK. I can understand you want a word meaning "God in action" or "God operating in the world" or something like that. Is that more or less what you are getting at?

 

[rosends]

OK. I can understand you want a word meaning "God in action" or "God operating in the world" or something like that. Is that more or less what you are getting at?

God's iteration as whole, acting character vs. the underlying idea of what defines a being as God.

 

[ecco]

Is the Christian God the same as the Jewish God?

I wanted to start this thread to hear what others have to say on the matter.

Marcion didn't think so.

Marcion of Sinope - Wikipedia

According to Marcion, the god of the Old Testament, whom he called the Demiurge, the creator of the material universe, is a jealous tribal deity of the Jews, whose law represents legalistic reciprocal justice and who punishes mankind for its sins through suffering and death. In contrast, the god that Jesus professed is an altogether different being, a universal god of compassion and love who looks upon humanity with benevolence and mercy.​

But other early Christians desperately wanted to recruit Jews, so they kicked Marcion out and called him a heretic.


Of course, it's not just differences between the Christian and the Jewish God. Views of God differ widely between different groups. Pentecostalists and Mormons and Roman Catholics don't all view God the same way.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I don't believe it is that oblique. I believe there are those who close both eyes and say He isn't there.

Either you're not following my train of thought or you're introducing folks who aren't relevant or I'm simply unable to make sense of what you're saying.

I believe the Qu'ran is not meant to replace the NT but simply to elucidate on some things that are not well understood but then the Muslims and Christians didn't understand the Qu'ran either.

"Not meant" by whom?

• If you say "God did not intend for the Qur'an to replace the NT", you're asking me to concede that "God" revealed something to Muhammad:
  • that could be and was recorded;
  • that was intended to clarify things that are not well understood; and
    
  • that neither Muslims or Christians understand.
• And I don't concede that.

 

[Kenny]

That is (in my understanding) Christianity's way of saying "we actually have the same idea of God, but you Jews don't really understand that idea."

I think that this statement is insensitive.

 

[rosends]

I think that this statement is insensitive.

So do Jews.

 

[exchemist]

God's iteration as whole, acting character vs. the underlying idea of what defines a being as God.

So God in action is the point. Fair enough.

What then is it that makes God in action according to Islam different from that in Judaism, in a way that God in action in Christianity is not?

 

[Brickjectivity]

That's my opinion. I wanted to start this thread to hear what others have to say on the matter.

That is very interesting and a real gift to compare and put yourself on the hot spot.

To me it seems that Jesus was mainly preaching about the merciful aspect of God. The OT/Tanakh was mainly focused on the lawgiving, powerful, testing and punishing aspect of Him. I think this is why some people see it as if there are different gods or that God has undergone a change of personality. I also believe that what one is like on the inside, influences how they would experience God. His merciful aspects are hard to find if you yourself can't be merciful. And He can appear as oppressive and unreasonable if you've never learned to humble yourself and be patient.

Thanks. This was an interesting comment. I have heard people, generally secular people, emote that the God of Christianity is a God of mercy versus the God of the 'Old Testament'. Actually the God I was taught about seemed to me sort of two-headed, because people were sent to hell yet God supposedly loved us all so much that we were like unique figurines each irreplaceable in the master collection. It was like if I went to hell it hurt God more than it hurt me...but really? The views about God change over time, I think leading to these kinds of difficulties.

Is this different from Christianity "squeezing" itself into the Torah and coming back to Jews and saying: "Oh, hey, it was this way the entire time - God was always triune, the Torah laws were always meant to be temporary, etc"?

In the writings preserved the major canon of the NT, that which is accepted by almost everybody it doesn't to me change the nature of God to believe that it is God's mercy that draws people to repent. I don't think that I can trace this to a root cause of problems. Rather I think problems come from the acceptance that God's judgments are arbitrarily right rather than consistent within a framework. This acceptance varies over time. It has a lot to do with translation problems.

 

[Kenny]

So do Jews.

Even Jews disagree with interpretation but that doesn't translate into "you really don't understand".

 

[rosends]

So God in action is the point. Fair enough.

What then is it that makes God in action according to Islam different from that in Judaism, in a way that God in action in Christianity is not?

If there is a claim in Islam that Isaac wasn't offered but Ishmael was, then the claim is that the God character performed an action IN AN EARLER TEXT that the other culture says wasn't performed. This means that the two are talking about 2 different actors (ignoring claims that either text is not authoritative, as each is for its culture).

Christianity is not saying that events in the earlier text didn't happen or happened differently, but that the underlying meaning of them is different.

 

[rosends]

Even Jews disagree with interpretation but that doesn't translate into "you really don't understand".

It goes along with "you don't understand your own texts."

 

[Terry Sampson]

How is God's knowledge conveyed to mankind, in your opinion?

• Primary means:
  • The Shekinah
  • Ruach Ha-Kodesh
  • A Bat Kol.
  • Visions
  • Dreams
• Secondary means:
  • Angelic messengers
• Tertiary means:
  • Human messengers

 

[Kenny]

It goes along with "you don't understand your own texts."

Are you saying that it is the statement that Jewish people say to each other when they don't agree?

 

[rosends]

Are you saying that it is the statement that Jewish people say to each other when they don't agree?

No, it is what Christians say (implicitly or explicitly) when they present their understanding/theological approach to Jewish ideas.

There is a difference between saying "your text is wrong" (which is effectively what Islam says when it claims that Jews changed the Jewish texts -- Tahrif) and "you don't understand your text" which is what Christians say.

 

[sun rise]

I'm not sure:

EL, ELOAH [el, el-oh-ah]: God "mighty, strong, prominent"

ELOHIM [el-oh-heem]: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong”

EL SHADDAI [el-shah-dahy]: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob”

ADONAI [ˌædɒˈnaɪ; ah-daw-nahy]: “Lord”

YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH [yah-way / ji-hoh-veh]: “LORD”

YAHWEH-JIREH [yah-way-ji-reh]: "The Lord Will Provide"

YAHWEH-RAPHA [yah-way-raw-faw]: "The Lord Who Heals"

YAHWEH-NISSI [yah-way-nee-see]: "The Lord Our Banner"

YAHWEH-M'KADDESH [yah-way-meh-kad-esh]: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy"

YAHWEH-SHALOM [yah-way-shah-lohm]: "The Lord Our Peace"

YAHWEH-ELOHIM [yah-way-el-oh-him]: "LORD God"

YAHWEH-TSIDKENU [yah-way-tzid-kay-noo]: "The Lord Our Righteousness”

YAHWEH-ROHI [yah-way-roh-hee]: "The Lord Our Shepherd" –

YAHWEH-SHAMMAH [yah-way-sham-mahw]: "The Lord Is There”

YAHWEH-SABAOTH [yah-way-sah-bah-ohth]: "The Lord of Hosts"

EL ELYON [el-el-yohn]: “Most High"

EL ROI [el-roh-ee]: "God of Seeing"

EL-OLAM [el-oh-lahm]: "Everlasting God"

EL-GIBHOR [el-ghee-bohr]: “Mighty God”

It seems like I don't, as a Christian, have a different idea of who God is.

Zoroastrians and Muslims have many many different "names" of God. It's our way of trying to understand what cannot be understood with the intellect.

 

[Harel13]

Yes... but did the Mosaic Law apply to the Gentiles?

Why, the Abrahamic one does?

Were they? Was Abraham punished for lying to King Abimelech?

Well...we were talking about the Garden sin, weren't we?