Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You just contradicted yourself. It does not say that divorce is bad. Do you understand your error yet?
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Is the christian bible God's word?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Where we diverge from Jews is that rather than tablets of stone we are to live as if there are commandments (for gentiles) in our minds. This is not optional, and every Christian is supposed to demonstrate this. This could not change the requirements for Jews without breaking the scripture about Moses laws, and its seems unthinkable.
I won't validate that claim (of changing Moses law). If at any point the NT disagrees with the law of Moses, then that portion of the NT is invalidated. I am not afraid to take this approach because I already think anything we value in the NT booklets we must be prepared to derive for ourselves from the greater previous scriptures. Paul, Jesus, Peter et all that everything must come from previous scripture. Anything I see in the NT I must search out in the greater scripture or consider it to be questionable, so I think its not enough to say something is in the NT or is the understanding of some great leader or writer.
I also think people don't always have to agree. We are not individually capable of handling all truth, so we have to allow disagreement. Let the truth be in God. That's what I think, but I can't imagine Moses laws ever being changed by Jesus. This is something I suggest you reconsider, though I don't intend to tell you what to do. I tell you what I think.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
My mother was married three times. The first marriage, my biological father physically abused her. The third almost raped me. My mother divorced all three of them (can't remember the second though not as "bad"). I'm not a christian, but many christian denominations don't believe in divorce because it's considered a sacrament. However, I never read in the bible that a couple need to stay together in sin. I'd assume if the environment and couple are toxic to each other, they have sinned and cannot not form a divine union since that sin breaks them apart (and if I took a christian view, as if the sacrament was never made).
The idea is that once married, you're "one" for life just as christ is married to the church for life. However, I do think there is some common sense in this. Here's some information on it Sacramental vs unlawful marriage and what the Church teaches Evangelist church probably have a more lenient view that either the marriage can be broken or it was never a marriage to begin with.
It really depends on what doctrine you follow. I don't believe that one can hold a sacrament of marriage in the form of an abusive home. They say the sacrament cannot be broken but on what grounds.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
In a literal sense, no, imo.
I think scriptures in general are honest attempts to teach others what some believe about God or Gods, thus none of them have any monopoly on exactly what IS.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
How would you ever know without having to believe it because of faith or a feeling?
First, I find that even an atheist can be kind to other people, but an atheist is Not going to do what Jesus instructed to do at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Divorce is only 'bad' if divorcing for frivolous reasons. Fornication is scriptural grounds for divorce as per Matthew 5:32; 19:9.
The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia. Porneia is also where we get the English word pornography.
Thus, scriptural grounds for divorce would include adultery and any un-natural sex act such as having sex with an animal would be grounds for divorce.
Remember: the majority of people throughout history never had the opportunity to follow the Bible, follow what Jesus taught.
In the resurrection they will have that opportunity to do so.
Now, because of the international proclaiming about God's kingdom when people hear about it they are free to act responsibly toward God and follow Jesus.
So, people choose to be a figurative humble ' sheep ' or haughty ' goat ', so yes a person can be ' lost ' - Matthew 25:31-33,37.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
"Fornication" is not synonymous with "adultery", and the Bible treats them quite differently.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Of course many modern things are bad. It's just people have no understanding.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
How can it be a God's word when it was written down by human beings?
Luke wrote after Matthew, thus to take Luke alone without considering Matthew's mention about 'fornication' as scriptural grounds for divorce at Matthew 19:9 and Matthew 5:32 would be ignoring corresponding Scripture.
ALL Scripture is inspired by God according to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, so we want to be complete about each subject or topic .
'Bells' is the word. In the original tabernacle passages the priest's robes are decorated with bells (so they are holy), and the priest wears a bell (which is holy), however the prophet Zechariah envisions that eventually even the bells of horses will be holy. What he is seeing is a world in which not everyone is Jewish, yet everyone is holy to the LORD. His vision is mentioned in Zechariah 14:21; however Zechariah assembles his vision from prior sources; so we must also follow back his own reasoning if we can. We must ask how Zechariah came up with this, so that we can understand what he's envisioning. He didn't just fart it or say gobbledygook but is commenting about torah. Those of us who are mature, self disciplined and spiritual should follow this procedure to find our basis for Christ and we begin to understand how Christianity begins and how it is envisioned to operate. The rest of us should put such things on hold. Not just anyone is able to do this. First we start like babies drinking milk which basic self discipline and fruits of the spirit, and then we add the difficult knowledge which is like tough food babies cannot eat. This goes hand in glove with the belief that the spirit is not something you can give to another person yourself, nor can you decide who is the greater between any two people. All you can do is lead by example. 'Bells' is the word.
Yes, adultery could be a married person just having sex outside of marriage.
Whereas, Jesus using the word ' fornication' instead of just the word adultery would include more than just extra-marital sex because fornication ( porneia ) includes un-natural sex, even sex with an animal would be fornication / proneia. as being scriptural grounds for divorce - Matthew 19:9; Matthew 5:32
I believe that it is God's word
I think it is a good that in our society people are able to end unhappy marriages or marriages that don't work and I believe divorces should be allowed, but I still think that divorce is a bad thing
Perhaps "sad" would be a better word than "bad"?
I'm comfortable with the term "Word of God" though don't see it as being entirely accurate when applied to the Christian or Hebrew Bibles. It would be more correct IMHO to say Jesus spoke God's Word and Moses spoke God's Word. Although the Hebrew Prophets and NT apostles were Divinely inspired, I would draw a distinction between the Divine Revelation through Moses and Christ, and the Divine inspiration of the Prophets and Apostles.
Divorce is a good example of Divine law that changes from era to era. In Moses time, divorce under certain conditions was permissible. Jesus clearly indicated that if a man or women divorced they could not remarry.
The Dharmic religions on the Indian subcontinent originated without any direct influence from Judaism and the Christianity. There is a case to be made that God's Revelation is not exclusively through Jewish people such as Moses and Christ, nor is His inspiration limited to the Jewish Prophets and Apostles.
Eventually we need to recognise the source of the light wherever the origin. An important source of that light is the Christian Bible IMHO. I believe God requires ‘both’ faith in Him and good deeds.
When you say the 'Christian Bible', you need to mention which book you mean - they can't all be the word of God because of the many contradictions and false statements.
For instance, the Old Testament says the earth is 6000 years old - a real God would know how old the Earth is - don't you think?
As for the New Testament - the Gospels have four authors with many differences between them - so they can't all be the word of God.
I do believe, that the words of Jesus as quoted in the Gospels can be considered to be the word of God.
But Jesus never really said anything about divorce! All he said was "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder". Many scholars think Jesus was trying to protect women from being abandoned by their husbands (which was a problem at that time) rather than insisting that husband and wife stay together for life. But I would suggest each person should interpret these words for themselves. Divorce is not a good thing, but it may be better than staying in a very unhappy marriage.
Anyway, I think the best is too pick out the words of Jesus from the Bible and follow them as the word of God. For the rest of the Bible you need a lot more discernment - some of it (especially from the OT) is completely wrong.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The Bible also says something about taking your eyes out, if you even think of another woman
And of course that also applies to woman thinking of other man with lust
So, if you take verses literal about divorce then take this one literal too
IF God had to kill all who violate His Rules THEN none would survive, I am quite sure about that
And by the way, do you remember how God created the Universe ... just some thought or word
So, if God, all knowing, would even thinks "this man is bad and should die" then this man would die
So, I am convinced that there is not an omnipotent, omniscient God that entertains such judgmental thoughts
Lucky for us, we have a loving God in this Kali Yuga era, who does not kill the bad humans
In my opinion the reverse is true, many ancient things where bad, its just that the ancients were too primitive to understand the concepts such as do no harm and empathy - particularly as they apply to the modern world.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
Yes it is.
Yes divorce is bad.
Many modern things are bad.
Yes they are lost,
Dreadful sorry Clementine.
God wants us to follow the Bible.
He dislikes it when we don't.
Even though we are kind to other people, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.
If a son asks for bread would a father give him a stone instead?
“Which of you fathers, if your son asks for f a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Why are you worried about divorce?
Sun went down 5:15 where I live.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Peaceful Sabbath.
Divine guidance is ‘offered’ to us to assist us with our personal lives and affairs. As it comes from a perfect God Who created us and knows what is best for us then it is the best advice.
But we have been given freedom to choose our own way and so I think we basically have done that and that is why the world is in such a mess.
But until people in masses come to that conclusion, things won’t improve.
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
When God opens your eyes and shows you He is in control of all that was, all that is, and all that ever shall be you will have overcome sin, death, and the power of the devil. Follow your heart. Everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Romans 14:23
New International Version
23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.