psychoslice
Veteran Member
I personally have never heard a decent argument for God, if anyone has one I would love to hear it, but no quoting from that book called the bible, its just riddled in lies.
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Is the Bible Just a Myth?
- Thread starter Kenny
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Hmm. What would be considered a decent argument?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Ima give a short cut version. Not many people read my posts. I cant reply if I dont read posts. So... @Ben Avraham
According to the definition you provided, a miracle is anything that is beyond man can perform. It is also a divine event only attributed to god.
Man's view: god performs miracles (he does things [create universe as you said] beyond what man can do)
Gods view: he does not do miracles (he IS the miracle worker)
If we call god's work man's view of miracles, we are just saying what god can do we cannot.
If we said god's work is in god's view, that is redundant.
The only way a miracle can depreciate god is if we claim to be the miracle workers. We are not. Hence why its called a miracle. What god can do we cannot. Its beyond our power to do.
I dont understand how calling god's power beyond our own depreciates him as god. How is that possible?
By whose perspective are you speaking of: god's (not in the dictionary) or man's (from the dictionary)?
According to the definition you provided, a miracle is anything that is beyond man can perform. It is also a divine event only attributed to god.
Man's view: god performs miracles (he does things [create universe as you said] beyond what man can do)
Gods view: he does not do miracles (he IS the miracle worker)
If we call god's work man's view of miracles, we are just saying what god can do we cannot.
If we said god's work is in god's view, that is redundant.
The only way a miracle can depreciate god is if we claim to be the miracle workers. We are not. Hence why its called a miracle. What god can do we cannot. Its beyond our power to do.
I dont understand how calling god's power beyond our own depreciates him as god. How is that possible?
By whose perspective are you speaking of: god's (not in the dictionary) or man's (from the dictionary)?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
That's just silly! Before I became a Christian, I had a question I asked Christians as to deny the power of God, I would ask them, "if God can do anything, can He create a bolder so big that He couldn't lift it?"
God can do anything, He created time and space. He exists outside of time and space. Who knows what is possible in His realm! Just because it doesn't seem "logical" in time and space, doesn't mean it is impossible outside of the same!
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
There's something in the Bible for everyone!
2 Corinthians 4:4 (ESV Strong's) In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Shad
Veteran Member
No it isn't. Go down to your local university's philosophy department and ask about omni-paradoxes. Look up what a square is. Look up what a circle is. It is logically impossible by definition to make a squared circle. e paradox. The stone paradox has issues namely lifting something requires 1. a physical body (God does not have one) 2. physical strength (God has no body). 3. Weight only means something with gravity (God is not subject to gravity). You wishing flawed arguments is your problem nothing more
Nope. God can not do the logically impossible as per my first statement. Otherwise you must state God can do the logically impossible which leads to absurdities and makes the concept of God mood as you can make whatever you want. It also undermines every claim for God since God is illogical.
There are different definition of omnipotent one being doing what is logical possible. You use an outdated and illogical one.
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Shad
Veteran Member
Not my problem you do not understand logic nor the philosophy of religion.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
You are still looking at it from a restricted view, humans are restricted to what is possible in this realm. God is not restricted in any way.
If God, or any being from the heavenly realm comes to this restricted realm, they wouldn't have a body, but how can you say that in the heavenly realm, He has no body?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
You think God is restricted to what our minds find logical? How silly!
Shad
Veteran Member
You merely display that you know nothing about the philosophy of religion for well the last 15 centuries. If God can do the illogical than God itself is an illogical concept that is irrelevant
No I am looking at it from philosophers of religion and theologians. Swinburne, Plantinga, Craig, Wittgenstein, Aquinas, Lewis for examples all not only accept what I have said, they said it years before I ever did. Even hacks like Hovind support my value.
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psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes, what ?.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes you like those little weapons, or words that you pick to throw at those who don't agree with you, as if those words mean anything. They were written by those who wrote those words to make those who don't believe their words feel like their sinners, it may have worked back then with all those ignorant people who couldn't even read, but we are too smart to be fooled that easy today.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
What would be an example of a decent argument?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
It's only illogical when looking at it from a human perspective. Again, you believe God can only do what "YOU" find logical, I don't.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 1:20-21 (ESV Strong's) 20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
You're correct, I know nothing of "mans" philosophy, all I know is "Christ and Him crucified"!
psychoslice
Veteran Member
We can only look from a human perspective, after all we are humans, we can make up stories about a god that is beyond our perception, but where would the argument be, of course there cannot be an argument, for who is going to perceive the truth of the argument if it goes beyond our human perception ?.
Coder
Member
Well, I have also heard the saying that God cannot lie. I guess the real point is what value is there in speaking about God in this way? I.e. trying to find things that are self-contradictions etc. So, from that perspective, I do see it as "silly". I think the spiritual perspective is to focus on progress.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Really? If we can "only look at it from human perspective", how do we make up something "BEYOND" human perspective? If you can perceive it, is it "beyond" perception?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Perceiving something that has never been proved is more imagination than anything else, you perceive what your mind makes up from the conditioning it already has.