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Is the bible inerrant?

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Rex, Mar 23, 2004.

  1. Rex

    Rex Founder

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    I won't tell
  2. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    It is errant. There have been many contradicting translations of the Bible. Especially from Hebrew to English. They can't ALL be true.
     
  3. RavenRose

    RavenRose Member

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    A lot are words that had different meanings back then... but really aren't contradictory. I admit to not having read the whole Bible. =0
     
  4. Azhria Lilu

    Azhria Lilu Member

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    What people tend to forget is that the bible was written by men... not gods.. but human men.. and men have the habit of translating things into what THEY want it to mean ... so I tend to take the Bible as simply an interesting story with a few good points.. but not strictly as the word of god.. as he isn't the author.

    :: patiently waits to be shot :: ;)
     
  5. RavenRose

    RavenRose Member

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    I don't buy in to what a lot of people like to say about how the Bible changed so much at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church and translators. Simply because there is not evidence of any change. The Dead Sea Scrolls, althought not the original documents, match up and are pretty old. If we had an original document - including way back to the Old Testament - then we would know for sure.

    I'm not saying that becuase it wasn't changed it is somehow true all of a sudden. Just that we have to remember a lot of things we might now like - that we just say bad people changed later - could just have easily been wrote at the time. It's not as if they didn't have their own predujices.
     
  6. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Here's a big change that comes complete with evidence. The Christian Bible refers to God as being male, the "father", and ONLY being male. The Jewish Torah uses a Hebrew masculine pronoun with a feminine ending when referring to God to imply that God is male AND female (or neuter). That is a big inconsistency.

    So... which version should one trust? The old version or the newer translation? It depends on one's personal beliefs.

    Someone once told me that "By the grace of God" God's meaning in the Bible remained intact despite Human translation... but this simply is not true if "God" originally referred to Itself as a neuter (or male AND female) and later called itself ONLY male.
     
  7. Master Hoomer

    Master Hoomer Member

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    "By the grace of God" God's meaning in the Bible remained intact despite Human translation... but this simply is not true if "God" originally referred to Itself as a neuter (or male AND female) and later called itself ONLY male.

    The Shekinah is DEFINATELY not male
    God is DEFINATELY not sexless!...

    imo..God IS Sex..and all religion derives from sex...but thats another topic.....

    The Shekinah left he Jews a loing time ago though...she ran away when the temple was destroyed :cry: :cry: :cry: "Oh Goddess why hast though forsaken me?".......(tongue in cheek).....

    The mystery of the Shekinah was mainly reserved for those "in the know" ie men..aged 40 and up......

    In Judaism Oral lore is important......(awaits lynching)......
    The name Abraham for instance ..I have read ...was given after abraham had dealings with the shekinah...and thus the Heh for abraHam...was introduced into his name.....

    :roll:
     
  8. RavenRose

    RavenRose Member

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    The "Father" is a title. "Mankind" describes male and females. It's kind of a jump to say something was changed delibratly.

    It's not a mistake... in a literal sense either. They did not want to say God (i.e. G-d)
     
  9. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    RavenRose, you are perhaps more openminded than most. If I were to appoach your average, mainstream Christian and suggest to them that God is NOT really only male, but female as well, they would FLIP!

    Perhaps saying the Bible is errant is too strong... God still knows what God means, even if we humans have all kinds of crazy, mixed up ideas. Let's say it is misleading, not errant, because each time it was retranslated it was interpreted to fit the beliefs of Christians of the present time period.
     
  10. RavenRose

    RavenRose Member

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    I would say it's midleading if you don't follow it's OWN instructions and dtudy everything it says in depth.

    Even the most fundamentalist Christian Science site I know of said, "The most dangerous book ever written is, along with the best, the most dangerous"
     
  11. xllb

    xllb New Member

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    The Bible not only errs. It is just plain wrong.

    Languages were not invented in a moment of Godly punishment in order to confuse the human race as claimed in Genesis 11:1-9. Women were not created for men (Genesis 2:18 & 1 Cor. 11:8). It is not unnatural for men to have long hair (1 Cor. 11:14). It does not offend God if humans wear clothes made of more than one material (Lev. 19:19). People do not spend eternity in a fully sentient state of unending torture just for not catching the right set of beliefs (Countless wild-eyed preachers for centuries). Gays do not deserve the death penalty (Lev 20:13). Rules accommodating slavery by giving a “recommended Manufacture’s sale price” that varies according to the slave’s age, nationality, poverty level and gender (Lev. 27:3-7) are evil.
     
  12. Rex

    Rex Founder

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    I think when you take out quotes you need to post the whole passage b/c we have no idea what context or dialect that is coming from.
     
  13. xllb

    xllb New Member

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    Sure, this will take a few minute, but Ill be right back.
     
  14. xllb

    xllb New Member

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    Languages were not invented in a moment of Godly punishment in order to confuse the human race as claimed in Genesis 11:1-9 Here’s the whole chapter.
    1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. {language: Heb. lip.} {speech: Heb. words}
    2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. {from…: or, eastward}
    3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. {they said…: Heb. a man said to his neighbour} {burn…: Heb. burn them to a burning}
    4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
    5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
    6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
    7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.
    8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
    9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. {Babel: that is, Confusion}
    10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
    11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
    12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
    13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
    14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
    15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
    16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg: {Peleg: Gr. Phalec}
    17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
    18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu
    19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
    20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug: {Serug: Gr. Saruch}
    21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
    22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
    23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
    24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah: {Terah: Gr. Thara}
    25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
    26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
    27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
    28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
    29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor’s wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
    30 But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
    31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

    Women were not created for men (Genesis 2:18 & 1 Cor. 11)
    Genesis 2 1
    1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. {created…: Heb. created to make}
    4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
    5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
    6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. {there…: or, a mist which went up from, etc.}
    7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. {of the dust…: Heb. dust of the ground}
    8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
    10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
    11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
    12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
    13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. {Ethiopia: Heb. Cush}
    14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. {toward…: or, eastward to Assyria}
    15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. {the man: or, Adam}
    16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: {thou…: Heb. eating thou shalt eat}
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. {thou shalt surely…: Heb. dying thou shalt die}
    18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. {meet…: Heb. as before him}
    19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. {Adam: or, the man}
    20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. {gave: Heb. called}
    21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
    22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. {made: Heb. builded}
    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. {Woman: Heb. Isha} {Man: Heb. Ish}
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

    It is not unnatural for men to have long hair (1 Cor. 11:14).
    1 Corinthians 11
    1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
    2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. {ordinances: or, traditions}
    3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
    4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
    5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
    6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
    7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
    8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
    9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
    10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. {power: that is a covering in sign that she is under the power of her husband}
    11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
    12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
    13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
    14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
    15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. {covering: or, veil}
    16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
    17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
    18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. {divisions: or, schisms}
    19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. {heresies: or, sects}
    20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper. {this…: or, ye cannot eat}
    21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
    22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. {have not: or, are poor?}
    23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. {in…: or, for a remembrance}
    25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
    26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. {ye do…: or, shew ye}
    27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. {damnation: or, judgment}
    30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
    31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
    33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
    34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. {condemnation: or, judgment}


    It does not offend God if humans wear clothes made of more than one material (Lev. 19:19).
    Lev. 19
    And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.
    3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
    4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.
    5 And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, ye shall offer it at your own will.
    6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
    7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.
    8 Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the LORD: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
    9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
    10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
    11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
    12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
    13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
    14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
    15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
    16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
    17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. {and…: or, that thou bear not sin for him}
    18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
    19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
    20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. {betrothed…: or, abused by any: Heb. reproached by (or, for) man} {she shall…: or, they, etc: Heb. there shall be a scourging}
    21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
    22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
    23 And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of.
    24 But in the fourth year all the fruit thereof shall be holy to praise the LORD withal. {holy…: Heb. holiness of praises to the LORD}
    25 And in the fifth year shall ye eat of the fruit thereof, that it may yield unto you the increase thereof: I am the LORD your God.
    26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.
    27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
    28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
    29 Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness. {prostitute: Heb. profane}
    30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
    31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

    Gays do not deserve the death penalty (Lev 20:13).
    Lev. 20
    1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
    3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
    4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
    5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
    6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
    7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
    8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.
    9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
    10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
    11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
    12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
    13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
    14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
    15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
    16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
    17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister’s nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
    18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people. {discovered: Heb. made naked}
    19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother’s sister, nor of thy father’s sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity. {uncovereth: Heb. hath made naked}
    20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle’s wife, he hath uncovered his uncle’s nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
    21 And if a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness; they shall be childless. {an…: Heb. a separation}
    22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
    23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
    24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.
    25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. {creepeth: or, moveth}
    26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.
    27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.


    Rules accommodating slavery by giving a “recommended Manufacture’s sale price” that varies according to the slave’s age, nationality, poverty level.

    Lev. 27

    1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.
    3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
    4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.
    5 And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
    6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.
    7 And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
    8 But if he be poorer than thy estimation, then he shall present himself before the priest, and the priest shall value him; according to his ability that vowed shall the priest value him.
    9 And if it be a beast, whereof men bring an offering unto the LORD, all that any man giveth of such unto the LORD shall be holy.
    10 He shall not alter it, nor change it, a good for a bad, or a bad for a good: and if he shall at all change beast for beast, then it and the exchange thereof shall be holy.
    11 And if it be any unclean beast, of which they do not offer a sacrifice unto the LORD, then he shall present the beast before the priest:
    12 And the priest shall value it, whether it be good or bad: as thou valuest it, who art the priest, so shall it be. {as…: Heb. according to thy estimation, O priest, etc}
    13 But if he will at all redeem it, then he shall add a fifth part thereof unto thy estimation.
    14 And when a man shall sanctify his house to be holy unto the LORD, then the priest shall estimate it, whether it be good or bad: as the priest shall estimate it, so shall it stand.
    15 And if he that sanctified it will redeem his house, then he shall add the fifth part of the money of thy estimation unto it, and it shall be his.
    16 And if a man shall sanctify unto the LORD some part of a field of his possession, then thy estimation shall be according to the seed thereof: an homer of barley seed shall be valued at fifty shekels of silver. {an…: or, the land of an homer, etc}
    17 If he sanctify his field from the year of jubile, according to thy estimation it shall stand.
    18 But if he sanctify his field after the jubile, then the priest shall reckon unto him the money according to the years that remain, even unto the year of the jubile, and it shall be abated from thy estimation.
    19 And if he that sanctified the field will in any wise redeem it, then he shall add the fifth part of the money of thy estimation unto it, and it shall be assured to him.
    20 And if he will not redeem the field, or if he have sold the field to another man, it shall not be redeemed any more.
    21 But the field, when it goeth out in the jubile, shall be holy unto the LORD, as a field devoted; the possession thereof shall be the priest’s.
    22 And if a man sanctify unto the LORD a field which he hath bought, which is not of the fields of his possession;
    23 Then the priest shall reckon unto him the worth of thy estimation, even unto the year of the jubile: and he shall give thine estimation in that day, as a holy thing unto the LORD.
    24 In the year of the jubile the field shall return unto him of whom it was bought, even to him to whom the possession of the land did belong.
    25 And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel.
    26 Only the firstling of the beasts, which should be the LORD’S firstling, no man shall sanctify it; whether it be ox, or sheep: it is the LORD’S. {firstling of: Heb. firstborn, etc}
    27 And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.
    28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.
    29 None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.
    30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
    31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
    32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
    33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.
    34 These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.

    People do not spend eternity in a fully sentient state of unending torture just for not catching the right set of beliefs (Countless wild-eyed preachers for centuries
     
  15. Rex

    Rex Founder

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    On the part of woman not made for man.

    I am not seeing the correlation. It just says he made woman.

    He doesn't say directly for man but he never says man was created for her.
     
  16. xllb

    xllb New Member

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    Your Bible doesn't include 1st Corinthians?
     
  17. ErikaLee

    ErikaLee Member

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    I don't know the Bible verses to refer you to, but I do know growing up a Christian that one of the principles behind everything is that woman's purpose is to serve her husband. To the point of not having the ability to disagree with him.

    I think it has something to do with since Christ is the head of the Church, and Man serves God/Christ and Man is the head of the household that woman serves Man. And I think that all goes back to Eve being created so man wouldn't be lonely (created FOR him) and Eve eating that apple again.

    Don't give me a buncha stuff about where is that and throw bible verses at me. I mentioned that what I said is an idea I heard throughout my childhood and was taught at home and at Church. I'm not even certain it is said in the Bible to that end, which would be another example of how some things are unwritten liberties taken on behalf of the Clergy at the time.

    EL

    Don't throw things at me, it's just my opinion and my experience.
     
  18. RavenRose

    RavenRose Member

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    Off the topic of the Bible :

    If you go and read other holy books from people who say the Bible is just plain wrong, you'll see they're not being equal sided.

    The Gnostic texts, Taoist texts, Confuscian texts, etc...
     
  19. jtb

    jtb Member

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    Hi

    It does say God did not want Adam to be alone. It also states that Woman would always be a part of Man and it's the first instance that Woman is refered to as being a "Wife" onto "Man"...

    Book 1 -> Genesis -> Chapter 2 -> Verse 18

    And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

    Book 1 -> Genesis -> Chapter 2 -> Verse 23

    And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    Book 1 -> Genesis -> Chapter 2 -> Verse 24

    Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


    jtb
     
  20. pmcleanj

    pmcleanj New Member

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    Is the Bible inerrant? It might be, but your argument for its inerrancy, unlike "the words of the Lord", is seriously flawed.

    To argue that the Bible is inerrant because the Bible says it is inerrant is circular reasoning. When a politician or business leader claims to be right on some point and gives as evidence that he's right because he says he's right, we laugh at his logic. It's just as illogical when it's something sacred that we're making the same flawed argument about.

    But even were we foolish enough to accept circular reasoning, your references don't actually make the claim you say they do. Psalm 12:6 says "the words of the LORD are flawless", but it does not say that the Bible constitues "the words of the LORD". In fact, the Bible as we understand it today didn't even vaguely exist at the time that the Psalms were written. In fact, the Bible is a collection of writings, not a single document. We've compiled it under a single cover, to be sure. But that does not justify our taking out of context a phrase that may refer to one document in the collection, and applying it to other documents or even to the collection as a whole.

    Finally, even if we accept that circular reasoning is valid and that the arbitrary identification of "the words of the LORD" with the entire collection comprising the Bible is valid, we'd be left with the question of which "Bible" to rely upon. Although by consensus the protestant community have settled on the 66 books that come between a typical pair of Zondervan covers, that is far from being the only collection that Christians accept. In addition to the 72-book canon decreed by the Roman Catholic Magesterium, several more obscure canons exist as well. If we decide that the 66-book collection is infallible, are we not also conferring the judgement of infallibility on the men who chose to include those 66 books and no others? But God alone is perfect, not the recent reformers who decided on that collection!

    I'm afraid the comfortable black-and-white certainty of a well-defined inerrant canon of scripture is a comfort available only to those who have not faced the real history of the texts we have come to call "the Bible".
     
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