1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is the Bible clear about who will inherit the Kingdom of God?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Muffled, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. Magus

    Magus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Messages:
    620
    Ratings:
    +146
    Religion:
    Medusian
    Book of Daniel is not a 'Prophecy', you see the word 'Prophet' does not mean 'Psychic' , it's just a poor translation of a Hebrew word 'Nabi (נָבִיא) and even forms the prefix of
    the name Nebuchadnezzar ( Nabu is the God of writing). 'Nabi' does not mean psychic, they are no prophets or prophecies in the Old Testament. it is entirely anachronistic,
    Events happen, they are written down (NOT the other way around ).

    Book of Daniel was written in Imperial Aramaic ( not English) , it's historical fiction, they never was a Daniel.
     
  2. Tammie

    Tammie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Ratings:
    +15
    Religion:
    Believer
    Since no one is talking, Thank you so much Faithofchristian, for asking me if My Mother was Ok besides her condition. Good to know that DavidFirth is here as well-Hello are you?. Thank you Uravip2me for that great explanation of those verses, well put. I learn so much from all of you and thank you all for being apart of any conversation that I am involved in. Anyhow, Thanks again....I will be logging out shortly until the next time.
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    We know ancient Babylon already fell, but Revelation's setting is for our day or time frame as per Revelation 1:10.
    So, I find 'Babylon the Great' (Revelation 17:5) is the particular Babylon mentioned at Rev. 14:8.
    We can generally trace mankind's religious family tree back to its roots in ancient Babylon with Nimrod.
    As the people moved out of ancient Babylon they took with them their Babylonian religious practices and ideas and spread them world wide into a modern or greater religious Babylon called Babylon the Great.
    That is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious practices and ideas in today's religious world.
    The reason Revelation can say Babylon is fallen is because the world's religious ' waters ' (People ) are dying up spiritually. Revelation 17:1B; Revelation 17:15 A likens people to water. ( see also Isaiah 57:20 ).
    So, as the literal water of ancient Babylon was dried up by Cyrus before Babylon's downfall, then the spiritual waters (people) of modern Babylon the Great are dried up spiritually before the political/military powers will turn on the world's troublesome religions. Spiritual 'house cleaning' will start with Christendom ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ) because Christendom corresponds to un-faithful Jerusalem of the year 70.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    The United Nations already sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world.
    With backing the U.N. can be strengthened and prove to be God's Arm of the Law against trouble-causing religions.
    We are at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14 in that the Bible's message is now greatly proclaimed world wide.
    We are also nearing the ' final signal ' of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when 'they ' (powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security " as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill. The world will see this is Not gibberish.
     
  5. herushura

    herushura Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    896
    Ratings:
    +58
    Isaiah as nothing to do with the New Testament, since it contradicts it, according to Isaiah, the Messiah was Cyrus (Isa 45:1 - 61:1) , the Old Testament exaggerates, 'Babylon didn't really Fall'
    because King Cyrus became the 'King of Babylon' , rather it is referring to the Fall of the Royal family of Nebuchadnezzar II rather then Babylon itself.

    Nimrod was most likely modelled after King Cyrus.

    'Babylonian religious practices' , yet most of the Jewish practices including the Mosaic Law is Babylonian in origin.
     
  6. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    Messages:
    3,058
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Christian
    And why do you think it was "not a real happening"?

    Vision = g3705. ὅραμα horama; from 3708; something gazed at, i.e. a spectacle (especially supernatural): — sight, vision.

    Peter, James and John sure thought it was real, Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles for them.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    There is No kingdom of Satan because there is No roasting in death. Roasting is a religious-myth teaching.
    There are two (2) teachings about hell: A false non-biblical hell just taught as Scripture, and biblical hell the grave.
    Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach sleep in death - John 11:11-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; 146:4.
    Biblical hell is just the temporary grave for the sleeping dead until Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' coming 1,000-year millennium-long day of governing over Earth - Revelation 1:18.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    A VISION is Not a real appearing. Please notice Matthew 17:9 because it shows the transfiguration was a VISION.
    Please notice the word VISION is used in that verse. Wanting to build shows just how real it appeared, but Peter wanting to do what he wanted to do does Not mean Peter was right. Jesus did Not have him build anything, rather notice what Jesus instructed them to do at Matthew 17:9. We are Not past Matthew 16:27; Matthew 25:31.
    Jesus comes with his angels ( compare Matthew 16:27 with Revelation 19:14)

    Moses and Elijah will Not be resurrected until Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth begins.
    Jesus taught at John 3:13 that they did Not ascend.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    Does Isaiah contradict or is it people contradicting Isaiah.

    The Christian Scriptures teach the time is coming when there will be No more death on Earth according to 1 Corinthians 15:26 which is in harmony with Isaiah 25:8 that death will be gone forever.

    Revelation 22:2 talks of food and healing for earth's nations and at Isaiah 33:24 he talks about the time when No one will say, " I am sick.....". Health for all at Isaiah 35

    Both Isaiah 11:3-4 and Revelation 19:14-16 is about Messiah (Jesus) executing the wicked by the executional words from Jesus' mouth to rid the earth of wickedness.

    Matthew 3:3 is in harmony with Isaiah 40:3 and so is Matthew 15:7 with Isaiah 29:13
    Luke 4:17 is in harmony with Isaiah 61
    John 12:38-41 in harmony with Isaiah 53:1; Isaiah 6:10; Isaiah 6:1; Isaiah 6:8
    Mark 1:33 is in harmony with Isaiah 53:4
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,238
    Ratings:
    +15,393
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Even some Christian note that Isaiah really has no reference to Jesus as the book deals with events that occurred many centuries before Jesus' time. "Jerome's Bible Commentary" (Catholic) mentions this, but says that the "Suffering Servant" accounts "prefigure" Jesus.
     
  11. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    Messages:
    3,058
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Christian
    When you see the word vision, you just assume it means dream right? Then I guess Peter, James and John were having a nightmare?

    Matthew 17:6-8 (ESV Strong's) 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” 8 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

    I believe they actually saw what was happening, and here's why,

    John 1:14 (ESV Strong's) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us

    Logos, the living Word of God became flesh/Jesus. Then at the transfiguration you have the Living Word of God, Moses, Elijah and Peter, James and John. So all in all there was the Living Word (Jesus), the Old Testament (the Law = Moses, the Prophets = Elijah) and the New Testament (Peter, James and John), the whole of the Bible in one place. The Law and the Prophets and the New Testament gathered around Jesus.
     
  12. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    Messages:
    3,058
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Christian
    It's a deeper than that. The word Pneuma doesn't actually mean "breath", if it does, how does this verse make any sense?

    Colossians 2:5 (ESV Strong's) 5 For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.

    I believe they used the word that translates "breath" only because the spirit is something we can't see, just like wind or our breath, but the spirit is a real and living part of us.

    John 4:24 (ESV Strong's) 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    Is God just "breath"?
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    I notice that you also refer to John's writings. John, according to Revelation 1, also wrote Revelation.
    Surely you are Not saying those 16 VISIONS were John's nightmare.
    Surely you are Not saying that Daniel's VISIONS were Daniel's nightmares.

    Right, I agree that they saw No one but Jesus only as stated above. That is because Jesus was the only one who was really there with them, and that is why Jesus called the transfiguration a VISION at Matthew 17:9.
    They beheld the future ' will come ' coming glory time ( Not nightmare time ) of Matthew 16:27; Matthew 25:31-33 when Jesus will separate people on Earth in Judgement before Jesus starts his 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth. The figurative humble sheep-like people have a favorable judgement according to Matthew 25:37.

    I also agree with John 1:14 that Jesus ( God's Word/Spokesman ) became flesh, when God sent the pre-human heavenly Jesus to Earth to dwell or reside among us, which I find in harmony with Philippians 2:7; Hebrews 2:14.
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,716
    Ratings:
    +2,107
    I notice at Psalms 104:30 that God does Not send forth His breath, but He sends forth His spirit.
    Also, I see at Genesis 2:7 that created Adam did Not come to life until after God breathed His breath of life into life-less Adam.

    Jesus believed that Scripture is religious truth at John 17:17, so worship should be based on Scripture.
    When we worship in spirit we have a lively living worship.
    The world has pep rallies in order to create lively school spirit.
    A high-spirited horse is lively because he is full of spirit, full of life.
    Scripture creates in us a spirited or lively worship as per James 2:26.
     
  15. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,711
    jeffrey dahmer made a confession for Jesus Christ.

    does that wicked evil twisted guy go to heaven?

    it's the most unscrupulous sense of justice ever.

    The ex mafia guy at the local church goes to heaven.

    but people who operate in their own integrity without Jesus go to hell.

    This stuff needs to sound crazy to people. and I sure hope it does.
     
  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,909
    Ratings:
    +1,249
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that gives us the King but who will the subjects be?
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,909
    Ratings:
    +1,249
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe Jesus is not bringing into His Kingdom people who agree with your personal opinion.

    I believe most people believe this but that wasn't the way it worked with the England and colonization. Colonists were required t swear a loyalty oath. Not only that but England emptied its jails and poor houses for those wishing to settle in the new world. I am not saying Jesus acts like a worldly king but why then would those acting morally be excluded because they did not know Jesus.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,909
    Ratings:
    +1,249
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe at least that shows that Jesus said so first and Paul is only putting it in different words.
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,238
    Ratings:
    +15,393
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Jesus said that he "came to serve, not to be served"-- Matthew 20[28] . And in the Sermon On the Mount and also in the Parable of the Sheep & Goats, he spells out that it is actions that people will be judged on, which is also repeated by James and even Paul.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    Messages:
    3,058
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Christian
    Psalms 104:30 (ESV Strong's) 30 When you send forth your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

    h7307. רוּחַ rûaḥ; from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation
    g4151. πνεῦμα pneuma; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath

    I agree, that's why I stated that I believe that "spirit" doesn't literally mean breath or life. They used that word to describe something we cannot see. The Spirit/spirit is a living thing that we cannot see.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...