whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
As Marshall Segall says "Millions wear ambition to camouflage their insecurities."
The Nightmare Driving the American Dream
The Nightmare Driving the American Dream
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Is the American Dream an impressive mountain to climb or a tiny cave to hide it?
- Thread starter whirlingmerc
- Start date
Live'n the dream.
Mine is landscaping.
As for the linked article in the OP...
The very first sentence inspired me to read no further.
Everyone can live the dream if they have reasonable
expectations, & are willing to work toward them.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Im not from the US, but I can see how the ideas is appealing to a lot of people, that everyone is created with equal opportunities for making a good life for themselves.
I do think the execution of the ideas is not really working very well, as people do not start life equally and the ideas themselves are not really reflecting the world we live in anymore. Meaning that its ought to be more about creating equal opportunities for all humans rather than ones selfish idea of what a perfect life is.
So I do share the basic ideas of Eco-socialism, that the system we have created for ourselves is one of slavery for the masses and freedom for the few, where the economic system is based on consumption and artificial needs rather than actual needs that would raise the living standard for humans as a whole. Especially with the earth and our exploitation of it, it seems to be a self destructive system with very few ambitions to it, when it comes to trying to achieve something better.
Therefore the dream should be one shared among all people, to thrive towards creating equal societies as that seems to be supported by evidence, when it comes to increasing the overall life quality of humans, regardless of how wealth is distributed.
By that I mean in equal societies, people tend to be happier, longer average lifespan, higher average education, less crime and so forth. So even for rich people, living in a society where people ain't poor, would benefit them, as there would be less incentive to do certain types of crime.
So as a personal achievement, depending on your starting condition it might be quite a mountain to climb, but for humanity as a whole, it seems rather pointless I think.
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BSM1
What? Me worry?
#MeToo. Co-fronting a rock and blues band for the first time in my life...
Too many people who aren't live'n the Ameristanian dream are
their own worst enemy. They need to do a better job of dreaming.
Audie
Veteran Member
I think immigrants are more American than the locals,
a lot of the time.
Come here, make a success of it, and dont whine.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
How exactly would you construct this society where everyone is equal ?
Real equality as a goal is impossible. From birth we are not equal. Some have higher, and lower IQś.
Some are driven to achieve, others, not so much. I could go on in this vein for many paragraphs.
So, you want to make an inherently unequal race of people, equal.
Using the Marxian model, you are totally concerned about the people as a mass, one size must fit all, and those who don´t meet this norm, for whatever reason, are squashed.
I, and the Founders, am concerned about freedom for individuals. Where individual talents and skills are given free reign to achieve what can be achieved.
As long as equal opportunity exists for all, there is nothing wrong with inequality. I am not as intelligent or as driven as Bill Gates, he having millions doesn´t bother me. I hope he rides his horse as far as it can take him.
I once was a volunteer with the Salvation army, and as such, I dealt with distributing food to the homeless vagabonds as they passed through our town.
Each an everyone had the exact opportunity to go to public school as I did, to work, to achieve.
Some due to circumstances totally beyond their control, were forced into homelessness, those society should help if they seek help.
In frank talks with them, I learned that many actually liked the lifestyle. They were free of responsibility, posessions, they didn´t mind what I perceived as total discomfort, they traveled and saw new things every day, as well as met interesting people.
Are they unequal compared to me ? Why ?
The socialist utopia is a chimera.
I have had the opportunity over the years to speak with people from socialist country´s, to a person, they hated it. They worked hard, but the fruit of their labor was difficult to find. One fellow wanted to own a car ( he had two after coming to America) yet he could only afford a mo ped in his home country, everything was heavily taxed, even food, so that the mirage of equality for all was maintained.
One girl, a schoolteacher, spoke of the taxation, on everything, and how she could barely save enough per month to buy a basic stereo system, after a year.
Your ¨equality¨ is anathema to me. I want everyone to have the opportunity to go as far as hard work, dedication, and will will take them.
I do not want people to be born into a cookie cutter life, where they are stifled by artificially imposed equality, with little hope of being anything more than a worker bee for the state.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
You are correct. I live in rural Arizona, where there is a lot of agriculture. Every day you see the Hispanic workers in the fields, working hard.
For unskilled, uneducated workers, they are paid pretty well. Many, are brought from Mexico as part of a guest worker program, and for them, by Mexican standards, they are paid very well.
Talk to a farmer, or farm foreman about hiring Americans who whine about not having a job, and they just laugh. To quote one, ¨ they would rather live off their girlfriends welfare than come out here and put in a hard day working.¨
Most if not all of the foremen are Hispanic, because of their hard work they are promoted, and reap the benefits of their work.
These could be black, or white, or Hispanic or any other race you might name from the inner cities, but non apply.
The Hispanic trait of hard work has not been diminished yet in these folks who farm, to them there is dignity in their labor.
I think a tiny cave would be great. Don't really need much to be happy. Unfortunately the price of tiny caves in California are way out of my financial reach.
Who's president doesn't make a lot of difference. Obama pissed me off with his universal health care system, but generally who is president doesn't actually have a big impact when one is fairly self sufficient anyway.
I think the US requires a universal health scheme like we have in the UK. No one should be denied treatment because they can't afford health insurance. I think Obama was the best president the US has had in my lifetime, I was born in 1950.
It wasn't the idea as much as it was the execution. It was a quagmire for me trying to figure out how to navigate the healthcare system.
While I'm not quite as old, as I look back, who was president never had a lot of impact on my life. Sure though, if you like someone, I suppose that's how they get themselves elected.
Although I am not an American I can remember all the US Presidents during my 69 years.
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
When I retire, if arthritis does not get me first, I plan on teaching Taijquan, Baguazhang and helping other old geezers such as myself stay healthy.
The other part of my dream is to retire and stop supporting deadbeat retirees such as you...... but becoming a deadbeat retiree
I know that you'll be paying taxes on your SS bennies.
And I'll be getting & spending that money.
Take solace in the fact that I'll buy good things....bacon,
haggis, maple syrup, tools, upgrades to Mr Van.
Audie
Veteran Member
Audie
Veteran Member
Navigate quagmire-wise, I am glad it was
my parents doing that with the INS, when
we immigrated.
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Yes.....but you will then be doing the same for me BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
And I will be buying and DESTROYING bacon with it BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA