Is Taxation legalized robbery?

[amorphous_constellation]

The notion that some character who happens to live off-grid in a hut should not be required to pay tax doesn't bear a moment's serious examination.

That it isn't even what I argued, I couldn't get that far: you aren't allowed to even do it on an empty lot, first of all. So when it comes to whatever that person might owe, we'll never really know , because it's not allowed on your own property

 

[exchemist]

That it isn't even what I argued, I couldn't get that far: you aren't allowed to even do it on an empty lot, first of all

Well if what you want to talk about is planning laws, that is not the subject of the thread. The thread is about taxation.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well if what you want to talk about is planning laws, that is not the subject of the thread. The thread is about taxation.

Well, then you're also talking about property taxes, an annual thing in the U.S. They probably couldn't assess it too high if you lived on a van in an empty lot - for you to live minimally , is technically not in the interest of the State , then.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well if what you want to talk about is planning laws, that is not the subject of the thread. The thread is about taxation.

He speaks of not just over-regulation, something that
relates to property taxes. Low cost housing doesn't
generate taxes, so it's often banned.

 

[exchemist]

Well, then you're also talking about property taxes, an annual thing in the U.S. They probably couldn't assess it too high if you lived on a van in an empty lot - for you to live minimally , is technically not in the interest of the State , then.

OK. And if you don't earn much money, you don't pay income tax either.

 

[Meow Mix]

What else is there to say that hasn’t already been said in this thread other than “no. Next question.”

The whole “taxes are theft” schtick is something that constantly confuses me because it’s always declared by people benefitting from them in so many ways that they could figure out if they stopped and thought about it for even three seconds.

Can taxes be misappropriated? Yes. Does that mean all taxes are theft? Negative ghost rider.

To have a society without taxes you’d have to privatize everything. But then you’re just replacing the word “taxes” with the word “rent,” except now instead of ostensibly being accountable to the people at least on paper now everything is only accountable to the <1% without even any pretense. You don’t want that.

 

[Stevicus]

I would agree if participants would first state which nation they were referring to instead of assuming everybody knows.
It is a big world out there, start recognising this.

If it's a generalized philosophical question about taxation, then it would apply to any and all human societies where taxation is present. No need to specify a country regarding the question "Is taxation legalized robbery," since the question can be applied to any tax system anywhere in the world.

In any case, if you're wondering where the OP is posting from, I believe he has that information in his profile, just as yours does. (I don't have it in mine, although the Arizona flag avatar should make it obvious where I'm from.)

I don't think Americans are ever really that shy about saying that they're from America, and many of us recognize that it's a big world out there. What I find more telling is when people outside of America use phrases such as "in my country," when they refuse to say which country they're from, almost as if they're ashamed to say where they're from.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

He speaks of not just over-regulation, something that
relates to property taxes. Low cost housing doesn't
generate taxes, so it's often banned.

Yeah how do the Amish do it , is it a 1st amendment issue? It must be , they must tie their religion into the land somehow. Well, the suburban and urban sprawl will probably come for them too . You can't fund nasa or the military, or universities with the Amish can ya. Yet people should still have the right to live like they do , anywhere they are

 

[icehorse]

Those who earn under $50,000 per year contribute 7% of the total income tax collected and represent 62% of returns filed. Those who earn $500,000 or more contribute 37% of revenue collected and represent only 0.9% of returns.

Lower income folks do not pay more taxes that higher income folks.

First off, for this response I'm assuming your stats are correct. That said..

First off, where do the remaining 56% of the taxes come from? The $50k-$500k folks correct? And presumably that group is 37% of the total number of returns?

Second, your last sentence is ambiguous. You mean per capita? you mean as a group? Are we to guess that your definition of "lower income" stops at 50k?

Next, if we assume some sort of baseline, minimum livable salary that should be tax exempt, wouldn't that change the numbers quite a bit? For a number of the lower income folks, the taxes they pay probably tip them to below some decent minimums, which is not the case for the rest of taxpayers.

Next, shouldn't we factor in income and wealth inequities? Do you think a low income person with no assets to speak of should be treated the same way as people with significant financial assets?

 

[MikeF]

First off, for this response I'm assuming your stats are correct. That said..

First off, where do the remaining 56% of the taxes come from? The $50k-$500k folks correct? And presumably that group is 37% of the total number of returns?

Second, your last sentence is ambiguous. You mean per capita? you mean as a group? Are we to guess that your definition of "lower income" stops at 50k?

Next, if we assume some sort of baseline, minimum livable salary that should be tax exempt, wouldn't that change the numbers quite a bit? For a number of the lower income folks, the taxes they pay probably tip them to below some decent minimums, which is not the case for the rest of taxpayers.

Next, shouldn't we factor in income and wealth inequities? Do you think a low income person with no assets to speak of should be treated the same way as people with significant financial assets?

Here was my quick internet search result for my numbers:

Federal Income Taxes by Income Bracket

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah how do the Amish do it , is it a 1st amendment issue? It must be , they must tie their religion into the land somehow. Well, the suburban and urban sprawl will probably come for them too . You can't fund nasa or the military, or universities with the Amish can ya. Yet people should still have the right to live like they do , anywhere they are

I suspect that many avoid income taxes just by eating
what they grow. Doing for oneself isn't taxable....yet.

 

[Valjean]

Why is this in general debates? It is quite specifically about one particular nation?
Do some of our less worldly RF members not realize that there are others on the WORLD wide web?

I'd invite some posters from other countries to explain how their countries organize things; what works and what doesn't.

 

[Stevicus]

Federal Income Taxes by Income Bracket

Those who earn under $50,000 per year contribute 7% of the total income tax collected and represent 62% of returns filed. Those who earn $500,000 or more contribute 37% of revenue collected and represent only 0.9% of returns.

Lower income folks do not pay more taxes that higher income folks.

That is a pretty telling stat, though. The chart from the link was also interesting:

62% of returns are from those earning less than $50,000, so it shows just how lopsided things are.

I suppose if the wealthy are upset because their taxes comprise a larger share of revenue, then it seems the best solution would be for them to give up some of their money, make sure that those earning $50,000 or less are paid more than what they're getting now.

So, those in the lowest bracket would pay more in taxes, and those in the higher brackets would pay less (because they would be taking less for themselves). Seems like it would be a win-win for all.

I wonder why wealthy people don't consider doing something like that, as opposed to constant whining about how unfair taxes are.

 

[Martin]

Past a reasonable amount for societal infrastructure, has taxes been overstepping that line in light that so many people, notably through loopholes, have avoided paying taxes? Why people pursue shelters, or even leave the country?

Also past a lump sum payed to the government, are extra taxes overkill on what one has already paid?

What is a fair amount?

Has it turned into legal robbery in the modern day?

No, it's tax evasion which is "legalised robbery".

 

[Valjean]

Interesting chart, but it only tells part of the story. What's not shown are the myriad exemptions, loopholes, rate adjustments, &c that alter nearly everyone's personal tax debt.