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Is Sunday sacredness in the Bible?

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by reddogs, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Then are we free to steal, murder, and take others wifes, of course not. Gods law still stands, as long as He exists, it is a deception that the devil brings that Gods law doesn't apply.

    This is why you must read the Bible not allow people to deceive you by saying its from 'tradition' or the 'church has the authority' and says its so. The Bible would have quickly shown the church had turned away into false beliefs so truths of the Bible had to be concealed and suppressed. So for hundreds of years the circulation of the Bible was prohibited by the Catholic church. The people were forbidden to read it or to have it in their houses, as false traditions and men interpreted its teachings. Thus the bishop of Rome came to be as god on earth, endowed with authority over church and state.

    To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. To hide what they had done, they tried to do what many Christians are saying today that Gods law doesn't apply or can be changed. They ignore it or presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment in their writings, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number.

    Now going and looking even at more corruption in the church, is what the Roman Catholic Church says about Mary, we find this too is from paganism. In almost all the devotional books of the Roman Catholic Church, the mother of God is crowned, sceptered and enthroned as the 'Queen of heaven'. The Pope claimed, "She has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth", (Pius IX, 1854), but it was not made "official" till 1954 by Pius XII. The Roman Catholic Church basically holds that damnation is impossible where there is true devotion to the Virgin.

    Hence the worship of Mary allows for and encourages multiplies sins which of course they then turn around and declare indulgences can negate. Now Pius IX, after decreeing the Immaculate Conception, made the cornerstone of the Roman Catholic faith to believe and to teach that salvation is received solely and alone through Mary. What happens to Christ in this doctrine, the Son of God is set aside, for a person that has died and is in the grave.

    Greece had her Venus and Rome her Juno and we find in scripture, the Diana of the Ephesians. The Egyptians had Isis, the same symbol, a female divinity whom they regarded as "the mother of the gods." Now the church brings in idols and calls it 'Mary' or whatever they want and claims the church can do it on their own authority and 'tradition', with no scriptural basis.

    But this is a problem as the Ten Commandments forbid it, so the Roman Catholic church changes the first two commandments and combines them into one. In doing this they end up dividing another commandment into two so they can still have ten. The commandment of idols and images is intentionally ignored and even claimed that the 'images' are not idols. “

    Nowhere does God approve of any type of worship toward objects that are even of Himself, neither the tabernacle which housed His presence, nor the ark which had the tablets, were to be worshipped. Yet these were some of the most sacred objects used toward God. Remember when Moses lifted up the Brazen altar in the wilderness for people to be healed by the bite of the serpents. Later when the Israelites entered the land of Canaan, they brought the bronze serpent with them and did a abomination and turned it into an idol, King Hezekiah finally destroyed it (2 Kings 18:4). We see that something that was used even by God can be turned into a superstitious idol.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Even you were to bother to even check with observant Jews, they will tell you that all 613 Commandments that form the basis of Torah. Your separation of the Ten while ignoring that other 603 is so completely nonsensical. If you don't believe me, go to Judaism DIR and maybe ask some the observant Jews for yourself.

    You mean your Bible, which the Catholic Church chose to form your church's canon? If the Catholic Church is so "evil", then don't be so hypocritical and give your Bible to someone who appreciates what the "evil" Catholic Church did.

    That's a lie as the pope is not God nor a god in Catholic theology.

    Lie #2, as Mary has nothing to do with "paganism".

    Lie #3, as we don't worship Mary as that is strictly forbidden.

    Lie #4, as salvation is through God which was enhanced by Jesus' death on the cross.

    Lie #5, as it is forbidden in Catholic theology to worship any object or material characterization of anyone or anything.

    And it is forbidden in Catholic theology, so the above is lie #6.

    Lie #7, for reasons previously mentioned.

    Which is why we don't do that, and for you to imply that we do forms your lie #8.

    Have you no shame? I've not only explained things to you but also provided you with a link to the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which you could easily have checked these our for yourself.

    It is so unfortunate that you have chosen hate over love and dishonesty over honesty, and I truly hope some day that you repent of your mischaracterization of the Church and begin to live out Jesus' message to "love one another as I have loved you". I will pray for you to eventually arrive at this understanding and eliminate the hate and bigotry that's clearly in your own heart, whether that be towards Catholicism or towards any other denomination or religion.

    Please pray on this.
     
    #22 metis, Jul 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Seventh day is just 'day of rest', and we use a pagan Calendar. The calendar itself has changed, so that previous 'saturday' may not even be a saturday now.
     
  4. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Well history shows us what happened, and there are even more statements on the Sabbath, from the Catholic Church that claim they are the ones that change the day, not the Bible or apostles or Christ, they are very clear on this:

    "The retention of the old pagan name of Dies Solis, for Sunday is, in a great measure, owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects - pagan and Christian alike - as the 'venerable' day of the sun."" Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, p. 184

    "When St. Paul repudiated the works of the law, he was not thinking of the Ten Commandments, which are as unchangeable as God Himself is, which God could not change and still remain the infinitely holy God."-Our Sunday Visitor, Oct. 7, I951.

    They even admit that Sunday worship, was introduced from paganism:
    "The church took the pagan philosophy, and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Sunday, and made it the Christian Sunday. There is in truth something royal, something kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the son of justice. Hence the church in these countries would seem to have said, 'keep the old pagan name. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder (another name for the sun god) , became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus. Catholic World, March 1894, p. 809

    "Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?
    Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church." Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p.58 (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris [1916 ed.], p.67)

    "Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the NEW LAW, that he himself has explicitly substituted sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as holy days. The church chose sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days." John Laux A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies 1936, vol.1 p.51

    "Sunday is a Catholic institution, and... can be defended only on Catholic principles.... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." Catholic Press, Aug. 25, 1900
    "The Sabbath was Saturday, not Sunday. The Church altered the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of Sunday. Protestants must be rather puzzled by the keeping of Sunday when God distinctly said, 'Keep holy the Sabbath Day.' The word Sunday does not come anywhere in the Bible, so, without knowing it they are obeying the authority of the Catholic Church." Canon Cafferata, The Catechism Explained, p. 89.

    ''Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.'' John Cardinal Gibbons, The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893

    Sunday - so called because this day was anciently dedicated to the sun, or to its worship. The first day of the week. Webster's Dictionary, 1929 ed.
     
    #24 reddogs, Jul 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  5. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Check the history, as its clear that Constantine as part his merging of paganism with the church issued the decree making Sunday a public festival throughout the Roman Empire, and should worship on Sunday (the first day of the week). The day of the sun was already a pagan festival from ancient times, so was familiar to the pagan subjects, and it was the emperor's policy to unite the conflicting interests of heathenism and Christianity. He was urged to do this by the leaders of the church, who thought that if the same day was observed by both Christians and heathen, it would promote the nominal acceptance of Christianity by pagans and thus advance the power and glory of the church.

    But while many Christians were gradually led to regard Sunday as possessing a degree of sacredness, they still held the true Sabbath as the holy of the Lord and observed it in obedience to the fourth commandment. But with so many former adherents to worship of the sun, it was gradually substituted with a day which they were already inclined. Thus the pagan festival came finally to be honored as a divine institution, while the Bible Sabbath was pronounced a relic of Judaism, and its observers were declared to be heretics.

    The bishop of Rome or pontiff gained influence as many new pagan 'converts' streamed in so he now claimed to be the representative of Christ. The Pope slowly took over the reins of power in the church, and began exalting himself above God. By the sixth century the power of the bishop of Rome had become firmly established. Its seat of power was fixed in the former imperial city, and the bishop of Rome was declared to be the head over the entire church. Christians were forced to choose either to yield their true beliefs and accept the papal dominance, ceremonies and worship, or to be imprisoned in dungeons or suffer death at the stake, or some other method.

    The ascension of the bishop of Rome or Pontiff and the rise of the Roman Church to power marked the beginning of the Dark Ages. The faith of many Christians, was transferred from Christ, the true foundation, to man or the papal power.

    So what example are we give by Christ and what did Jesus say:
    John 15:10 "I have kept my father's commandments"

    We find many scriptures that Jesus attended church on the Sabbath day. "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read." Luke 4:16

    And what did the Apostles do:
    "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2.
    "Paul and his company ... went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down." Acts 13:13, 14.
    "And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." Acts 16:13. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Acts 18:4.

    And where the Gentiles also to worship on Sabbath, we find the following in scripture: "Blessed is the man ... that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it." "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, ... every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer ... for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:2, 6, 7.

    Even after the resurrection, the apostles taught it:
    "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath." "And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God." Acts 13:42, 44,
     
  6. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Now look carefully as here is what the Protestant churches say on this:

    Anglican:
    "And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the Church, has enjoined it." Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, pages 334, 336.

    Baptist:
    “There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.” Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the ‘Baptist Manual’.

    "To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false [Jewish traditional] glosses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instructing those founded, discuss or approach the subject.
    Of course I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day as we learn from the Christian Fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun-god, then adopted and sanctified by the Papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism." (Dr. E. T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in 'New York Examiner,' November 16, 1893)

    "The Scriptures nowhere call the first day of the week the Sabbath. . .There is no Scriptural authority for so doing, nor of course, any Scriptural obligation." The Watchman.
    "We believe that the law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of His moral government."-"Baptist Church Manual," Art. 12.

    "There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance." -WILLIAM OWEN CARVER, "The Lord's Day in Our Day," page 49.
    "There is nothing in Scripture that requires us to keep Sunday rather than Saturday as a holy day." Harold Lindsell (editor), Christianity Today, Nov. 5, 1976
    Church of Christ:

    "But we do not find any direct command from God, or instruction from the risen Christ, or admonition from the early apostles, that the first day is to be substituted for the seventh day Sabbath." "Let us be clear on this point. Though to the Christian 'that day, the first day of the week' is the most memorable of all days ... there is no command or warrant in the New Testament for observing it as a holy day." "The Roman Church selected the first day of the week in honour of the resurrection of Christ. ..." Bible Standard, May, 1916, Auckland, New Zealand.

    "... If the fourth command is binding upon us Gentiles by all means keep it. But let those who demand a strict observance of the Sabbath remember that the seventh day is the ONLY sabbath day commanded, and God never repealed that command. If you would keep the Sabbath, keep it; but Sunday is not the Sabbath. The argument of the 'Seventh-day Adventists' is on one point unassailable. It is the Seventh day not the first day that the command refers to." G. Alridge, Editor, The Bible Standard, April, 1916.

    "There is no direct Scriptural authority for designating the first day the Lord's day."-DR. D. H. LUCAS, Christian Oracle, Jan. 23, 1890.

    "The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath. There never was any change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."-"First-Day Observance," pages 17, 19.

    "It has reversed the fourth commandment by doing away with the Sabbath of God's Word, and instituting Sunday as a holiday." DR. N. SUMMERBELL, "History of the Christian Church," Third Edition, page 4I5.

    "To command...men...to observe...the Lord's day...is contrary to the gospel." - "Memoirs of Alexander Campbell," Vol. 1, page 528.

    "It is clearly proved that the pastors of the churches have struck out one of God's ten words, which, not only in the Old Testament, but in all revelation, are the most emphatically regarded as the synopsis of all religion and morality."-ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, "Debate With Purcell," page 214.

    "I do not believe that the Lord's day came in the room of the Jewish Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day, for this plain reason, where there is no testimony, there can be no faith. Now there is no testimony in all the oracles of heaven that the Sabbath was changed, or that the Lord's day came in the room of it."-ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, Washington Reporter, Oct. 8, 1821.

    Episcopalian:
    "We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ." Bishop Symour, Why We keep Sunday.

    "The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec

    Lutheran:
    "The observance of the Lord's Day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the Church." Augsburg Confession of Faith.

    "They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appears, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, say they, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." -Augsburg Confession of Faith, Art. 28, par. 9.

    "They (Roman Catholics) allege the change of the Sabbath into the Lord's day, as it seemeth, to the Decalogue; and they have no example more in their mouths than they change of the Sabbath. They will needs have the Church's power to be very great, because it hath dispensed with the precept of the Decalogue." The Augsburg Confession, 1530 A.D. (Lutheran), part 2, art 7, in Philip Schaff, the Creeds of Christiandom, 4th Edition, vol 3, p64

    "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance."- AUGUSTUS NEANDER, "History of the Christian Religion and Church," Vol. 1, page 186.

    "I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments... Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also."-MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist," pages 71, 72.

    "We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish Sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christian of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both." The Sunday Problem, a study book by the Lutheran Church (1923) p.36

    "But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect" John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16

    Methodist:
    "This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages."-JOHN WESLEY, "Sermons on Several Occasions," 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

    "No Christian whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral."-"Methodist Church Discipline," (I904), page 23.

    "The Sabbath was made for MAN; not for the Hebrews, but for all men."-E.O. HAVEN, "Pillars of Truth," page 88.

    "The reason we observe the first day instead of the seventh is based on no positive command. One will search the Scriptures in vain for authority for changing from the seventh day to the first.""The reason we observe the first day instead of the seventh is based on no positive command. One will search the Scriptures in vain for authority for changing from the seventh day to the first... Our Christian Sabbath, therefore, is not a matter of positive command. It is a gift of the church... "-CLOVIS G. CHAPPELL, "Ten Rules for Living," page 61.
    "Sabbath in the Hebrew language signifies rest, and is the seventh day of the week... and it must be confessed that there is no law in the New Testament concerning the first day." Charles Buck, A Theological Dictionary, "Sabbath"

    "In the days of very long ago the people of the world began to give names to everything, and they turned the sounds of the lips into words, so that the lips could speak a thought. In those days the people worshipped the sun because many words were made to tell of many thoughts about many things. The people became Christians and were ruled by an emperor whose name was Constantine. This emperor made Sunday the Christian Sabbath, because of the blessing of light and heat which came from the sun. So our Sunday is a sun-day, isn't it?"-Sunday School Advocate, Dec. 31, 1921.

    "The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their un­changeable relation to each other."-JOHN WESLEY, "Sermons on Several Occasions," Vol. I, Sermon XXV.

    “It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for the keeping of the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath, base it only on a supposition.” Amos Binney, ‘Theological Compendium’, p. 180-181

    "The Sabbath instituted in the beginning, and confirmed again and again by Moses and the prophets, has never been abrogated. A part of the moral law, not a jot or a tittle of its sanctity has been taken away." Bishops Pastoral.
     
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Every single denomination you mention above uses a Sunday observance.
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    If one reads my posts on this and some other threads, they may pick up that I tend to get emotional over this, and they would be correct. Let me briefly explain why this is the case.

    As I previously mentioned, I was brought up in a staunchly anti-Catholic fundamentalist Protestant church, and my parents were also strongly anti-Catholic. My own father threatened that he would kick my "a**" if he ever heard I was attending a mass. Imagine their chagrin when I was dating a very devout Catholic woman during my sophomore year in college. I went with her to mass several times, and found out that at least part of what I was told about the Catholic church was simply false. However, I didn't have the theological background to delve any further, so I ended up taking two Catholic theology courses taught by a Jesuit professor that was one of the brightest men I have ever met. However, I still remained at my old church, although I became much less active in it.

    Two years later, I met, dated, and fell in love with another very devout Catholic woman, and six months later we decided to get married. Imagine my parents reaction to that, which was quite, let me say, "frosty". My mother literally tried to talk me out of getting married to her, but she finally, but reluctantly, relented. My father was so disgusted with me that he couldn't even talk about it with me.

    But my how things can change once one gets over their bigotry. Several years later, after we had two girls, my parents finally relented and came to a couple of services, and they began to change their opinion. And at one time I heard my father tell one of his neighbors that the reason he liked our church was because it was a Catholic church that "acted like a Protestant church". I didn't say anything but laughed inside of myself.

    But more importantly, both of my parents fell in love with my wife to the point whereas I jokingly told a good friend of mine that if I ever were to divorce my wife that my parents would keep her and disown me.

    Anyhow, my parents never brought up any of their former anti-Catholic bigotry again, and I never held it against them as the bigotry they had is how they were brought up to believe.

    Now you know why this form of bigotry means so much to me, and it is just so unfortunate that even today that this form of bigotry still exists. As one Protestant minister said in a t.v. interview a couple of decades ago that I saw, anti-Catholicism is still an acceptable form of bigotry left here in America.

    BTW, my wife and I have been married for 52 years, and she has been the best wife I ever could have hoped for. Only once in all those years did we go to bed angry with each other, and the next morning we got up and laughed at how stupid we were. And that happened around 48 years ago.
     
  9. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    And yet they KNOW that Sunday is not what the Bible says..take a look, here is more:

    Moody Bible Institute:
    "The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"- D.L. MOODY, "Weighed and Wanting," page 47.

    "I honestly believe that this commandment [the fourth, or Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.' It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was-in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.' - Id., page 46.
    "This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times." D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881.

    Presbyterian:
    "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." Dwight's Theology, Vol. 14, p. 401. "A further argument for the perpetuity of the Sabbath we have in Matthew 24:20, Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter neither on the Sabbath day. But the final destruction of Jerusalem was after the Christian dispensation was fully set up (AD 70). Yet it is plainly implied in these words of the Lord that even then Christians were bound to strict observation of the Sabbath." Works of Jonathon Edwards, (Presby.) Vol. 4, p. 621.

    "We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law; for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must therefore be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is constant and uniform." JOHN CALVIN, "Commentary on a Harmony of the Gospels," Vol. 1, page 277.
    "God instituted the Sabbath at the creation of man, setting apart the seventh day for the purpose, and imposed its observance as a universal and perpetual moral obligation upon the race." ­American Presbyterian Board of Publication, Tract No. 175.

    "The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that not only in regard to the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither doth Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation." "Westminster Confession of Faith," Chap. 19, Art. 5.

    "The Sabbath is a part of the Decalogue-the Ten Commandments. This alone for ever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution ... Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand...The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."- T.C. BLAKE, D.D., "Theology Condensed," pages 474, 475.

    "Sunday being the first day of which the Gentiles solemnly adored that planet and called it Sunday, partly from its influence on that day especially, and partly in respect to its divine body (as they conceived it) the Christians thought fit to keep the same day and the same name of it, that they might not appear carelessly peevish, and by that means hinder the conversion of the Gentiles, and bring a greater prejudice that might be otherwise taken against the gospel" T.M. Morer, Dialogues on the Lord's Day

    "There is no word, no hint in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday. The observance of Ash Wednesday, or Lent, stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday. Into the rest of Sunday no Divine Law enters." Canon Eyton, in The Ten Commandments.

    "Some have tried to build the observance of Sunday upon Apostolic command, whereas the Apostles gave no command on the matter at all.... The truth is, so soon as we appeal to the litera scripta [literal writing] of the Bible, the Sabbatarians have the best of the argument." The Christian at Work, April 19, 1883, and Jan. 1884
    Southern Baptist:
    “The sacred name of the Seventh day is Sabbath. This fact is too clear to require argument [Exodus 20:10 quoted]… on this point the plain teaching of the Word has been admitted in all ages… Not once did the disciples apply the Sabbath law to the first day of the week, -- that folly was left for a later age, nor did they pretend that the first day supplanted the seventh.” Joseph Hudson Taylor, ‘The Sabbatic Question’, p. 14-17, 41.

    "The first four commandments set forth man's obligations directly toward God.... But when we keep the first four commandments, we are likely to keep the other six. . . . The fourth commandment sets forth God's claim on man's time and thought.... The six days of labour and the rest on the Sabbath are to be maintained as a witness to God's toil and rest in the creation. . . . No one of the ten words is of merely racial significance.... The Sabbath was established originally (long before Moses) in no special connection with the Hebrews, but as an institution for all mankind, in commemoration of God's rest after the six days of creation. It was designed for all the descendants of Adam."-Adult Quarterly, Southern Baptist Convention series, Aug. 15, 1937.

    It just goes on and on, they know the Law and Sabbath has not changed, and yet still follow a day claimed as the mark of authority of another church.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Listen, I couldn't care less which day of the week you might want to worship as it is your right to choose that day, so why don't you extend that same courtesy towards those denominations that may disagree with you? Do you try and micro-manage everyone around you on everything?
     
  11. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    So what does God say, He wrote to "Remember" the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, not the six other.
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    So, obviously basic courtesy towards others is just not your thing.

    Therefore: II Corinthians 6[14] says "Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?"
     
  13. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Don't shoot the messenger just letting it be known what is in scripture and history shows us, as those who continue in sin, and transgress the law, will reap the wages of sin.

    1 John 3:4
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
     
  14. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the Bible, the sabbath was changed to Sunday.

    And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow. And he continued his speech until midnight.
    (Acts 20:7)

    Acts 20:7 clearly says that they gathered on the first day of the week. The first day of the week is Sunday.

    On the first day of the week, let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him: that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
    (1 Corinthians 16:2)

    1 Corinthians 16:2 also speaks of them meeting gon the first day of the week which is Sunday. It doesn't mention them meeting but it mentions collections being made and collections are always made at the church service which was a Catholic Mass.

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a festival day or of the new moon or of the sabbaths, Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.
    (Colossians 2:16-17)

    Colossians 2:16-17 speaks for itself.

    I was in the spirit on the Lord's day and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
    (Revelation 1:10)

    Revelation 10:10 speaks of the Lord's Day and not the Sabbath.

    I think it should also be noted that it is clear from the Early Church Fathers that they met on Sunday. See this link which contains several quotes from them: Sabbath or Sunday?

    Here are a couple more good articles about the subject:

    From Sabbath to Sunday

    Did the early Church move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?

    Changing the Sabbath
     
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  15. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Nowhere was the Sabbath changed, nor did the apostles changed it, nor is there any discussion or meeting held to changed it. They would collect money on any day except the Sabbath as they were mostly Jews.There is no special significance in the disciples breaking bread at this first-day meeting, for they broke bread "daily" (Acts 2:46). We are not told that henceforth Sunday should be the day for this service to be conducted. To read Sunday sacredness or Sunday observance into Acts 20:7 is to do violence to the text.

    Furthermore, the term "breaking bread" here does not mean communion; otherwise the disciples were taking communion every single day. Does Acts 20:7 say that breaking bread constitutes a change to God’s day of rest? Nope.

    Something that most miss is that if you read the story further you'll find that Paul starts out on Sunday morning for his trip; he travels about 30 km and then buys a boat ticket! Now, if Sunday had been any kind of holy day then Paul would not have been traveling nor purchasing anything on that day.
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Thanks for the above.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    There's been some here who are Christian and proclaim that the Sabbath Laws must be obeyed, but that's contrary to what the NT actually says, especially since the Decalogue is the first 10 of the 613 Laws (Commandments):
    Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”

    Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”

    7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”

    10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

    14:20: “All foods are clean.”


    I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”

    Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”

    5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”

    Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”

    Hebrews 7:18: “The former Commandment (I.e. priests according to the order of Melchizedek) has been annulled because of its weakness and uselessness.”


    Therefore, there was and is no real obstacle to moving the communal observance for Christians from Shabbat to "the Lord's Day".
     
  18. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome.
     
  19. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

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    How do you account for the fact that the Early Church Fathers clearly state that they celebrated the Lord's Day on Sunday then?
     
  20. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Look up your history, by around 200 years after Christ, and beginning with the church in Rome, Christians began to participate with the pagan religions in their Sunday (Day of the Sun) celebrations while still continuing to observe the Sabbath.

    Pagan beliefs and rituals, etc. were allowed to come into the church, the idols renamed and christianized to make paganism respectable, and acceptable. This where you get 'tradition' as the excuse for letting these things in the church as the Bible certainly speaks against it. And of course the unscriptural doctrine of Mary as the Queen of Heaven with her Immaculate Conception doctrine.

    If as many think, Christians as a whole observed Sunday in place of the "Jewish" Sabbath from the resurrection on Sunday onward, then why was it necessary for the church much less the Emperor to enact ecclesiastical laws and edicts to enforce Sunday worship as a day of rest? Simply put, the issue has always been one of authority, authority to declare binding pagan holy festival days as a day of worship. The church claims it is their mark of their authority to institute such days, and goes to declaring them obligatory, and that one commits a sin if you do not attend services on those days.

    So you must choose, do you follow man and his 'tradition' or do you follow God.
     
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