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Is Sunday sacredness in the Bible?

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by reddogs, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    The Bible is quite silent on Sunday sacredness, so those who claim they follow 'Solo Scriptura' or the "Bible Only" Protestant Churches contradict themselves by observing it as a replacement for the Sabbath. Many say that the reason it is held as the day of worship is since Jesus rose on the first day, or because the Holy Spirit was given to the early church on the Day of Pentecost, or that Paul broke bread and ate on the first day at Troas, or had offering brought to him on the first day to take to those suffering in Jerusalem. But history and logic verify that none of the arguments are valid. Nowhere it the Bible does it declare Sunday sacredness, or is the day of worship changed by Christ or the Apostles.

    Many Christians believe and teach that Sunday is the "Christian sabbath" or that a change was made by God to the Sunday observance, but scripture says nothing on this. Now lets look at how the belief was held by the Reformers as they knew Sunday sacredness was not scriptural.....

    The Reformers held that Sunday observance was not juris divini (of divine law), but only quasi juris divini (of semidivine law); yet they did would not allow that the claim that it could be changed and appointed by the authority of the Roman Catholic church (Augsburg Confession of 1536, part 2, art. 7, "Of Ecclesiastical Power"). However the Protestant churches held to the idea of Sunday sacredness, and followed the Catholic practice of Sunday observance. This is not found in the Bible, and Christ confirmed that as Creator He made the Sabbath for man, and He kept the Sabbath:

    Mark 2:27-28 King James Version (KJV)

    "27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
    28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

    Christ observed the Sabbath and He set an example for us to follow:

    Luke 4:16 King James Version (KJV)

    "16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."

    The practice of observing the first day of the week as Sabbath has no sanction either in Christ or in the New Testament. Jesus kept the Sabbath and He went to on Sabbath to the synagogue to worship, and nowhere does scripture have anything contesting this. We find it in many text:

    Luke 4:17 King James Version (KJV)

    "17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,"

    The Sabbath was not only for going to church in order to worship but also to hear God’s Word. On the Sabbath day we find Christ in His mission to teach, to relieve the oppressed, to heal every kind of disease, and to restore those who are brokenhearted and without hope. And Christ did even more:

    Luke 4:31-41 King James Version (KJV)

    "31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
    32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
    33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
    34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
    35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.
    36 And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.
    37 And the fame of him went out into every place of the country round about.
    38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
    39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
    40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
    41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ."

    We also see how on the Sabbath day Christ handled the demon-possessed man who confronted Jesus, and He rebuked the evil angels just as He rebuked the Devil himself.


    Mathew 4:1-11 King James Version (KJV)

    1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
    3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
    4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
    5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
    6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
    7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
    8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
    10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Notice He states "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve", worship is important. Now much of the Christian world reverences Sunday or holds to Sunday sacredness, but did God know that this attempt to change His holy Sabbath would occur? Lets look:

    "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25

    "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30

    God predicted that from within the church itself, there would arise men who would attempt to change what He had set from Creation and His holy law. So the prophecy has shown to be true, and it has come to about as the Sabbath and those who kept it were swept away, and a substitute put in.
     
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  2. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Here are some statements showing which show who the Protestant churches are following and its not the Bible:

    "Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950. This Rock


    Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
    Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

    Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
    Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

    Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
    A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; ... Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.

    "The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

    ''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

    "All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible." The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

    "... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

    'Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'' Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

    "But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." The Faith of Millions

    "Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

    'If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.' Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

    'It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.'Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ on March 18, 1903. This Rock

    'Of course these .. quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame ' This Rock,The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997

    'The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church.' Monsignor Louis Segur, 'Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today';, p. 213.
     
  3. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    There are even more statements on the Sabbath, the Catholic Church is very clear on this:

    "The retention of the old pagan name of Dies Solis, for Sunday is, in a great measure, owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects - pagan and Christian alike - as the 'venerable' day of the sun."" Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, p. 184

    "When St. Paul repudiated the works of the law, he was not thinking of the Ten Commandments, which are as unchangeable as God Himself is, which God could not change and still remain the infinitely holy God."-Our Sunday Visitor, Oct. 7, I951.

    "Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?
    Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church." Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p.58 (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris [1916 ed.], p.67)
    "Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the NEW LAW, that he himself has explicitly substituted sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as holy days. The church chose sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days." John Laux A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies 1936, vol.1 p.51

    "Sunday is a Catholic institution, and... can be defended only on Catholic principles.... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." Catholic Press, Aug. 25, 1900
    "The Sabbath was Saturday, not Sunday. The Church altered the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of Sunday. Protestants must be rather puzzled by the keeping of Sunday when God distinctly said, 'Keep holy the Sabbath Day.' The word Sunday does not come anywhere in the Bible, so, without knowing it they are obeying the authority of the Catholic Church." Canon Cafferata, The Catechism Explained, p. 89.

    ''Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.'' John Cardinal Gibbons, The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893
     
  4. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Now those that kept the Sabbath were subject to great persecution as the "Christian" leaders began to make laws against the Sabbath, forcing the "day of the sun" as the day of worship to the forefront with "Sunday Laws"...

    Here are a few:
    One of the first Sunday Law enacted states "Let all judges and all city people and all tradesmen rest upon the venerable day of the sun. But let those dwelling in the country freely and with full liberty attend to the culture of their fields; since it frequently happens that no other day is so fit for the sowing of grain, or the planting of vines; hence, the favorable time should not be allowed to pass, lest the provisions of heaven be lost." -- Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3. Constantine (and Crispus) being consul (each for the second time). 321 A.D.

    "For several centuries, Christians observed Sunday simply as a day of worship, without being able to give it the specific meaning of Sabbath rest. Only in the fourth century did the civil law of the Roman Empire recognize the weekly recurrence, determining that on "the day of the sun" the judges, the people of the cities and the various trade corporations would not work"- Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis v.64, May 31, 1998
    'The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate (change) laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop.

    'The Pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap.( This is very true as he did away with God's seventhday Sabbath and replaced it with his own first day or Lord's day....the day of the Sungod.~kh)

    The Pope knows its not the 'Christian Sabbath', yet pushes Sunday sacredness, we see it here,``Sunday is something much different: It is the weekly day in which the church celebrates the resurrection of Christ,'' he said. ``In obedience to the Third Commandment (actually the fourth commandment), Sunday must be sanctified, above all by participation in holy Mass.'' Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis, May 31, 1998

    "In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays." Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1994, 585....Sabbath Commandment Vs Sunday Law
     
  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The observance of Shabbat was and is under Jewish Law, and the early Church, starting with the apostles themselves, walked away from the letter of that Law. The shifting from the main observance from being Saturday to then Sunday was quite gradual and most of that movement took place in the 2nd century with the increasing observance of the "agape meal" that was held on Sunday.

    A reminder that there are 613 Commandments found in Torah, with the Shabbat Laws being only a handful of them. All of them can be found here: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
     
  6. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Gods Law of love, the 10 Commandments are everlasting they do not change as long as God exists. But even the Jews admit that the law of Moses ( or as a list of 613 Mitzvot) is arbitrary depending on the individual Rabbi or teacher interpreting it, and no longer apply as the Temple and its sacrifices and services doesn't exist. For good reason as the Lamb of God they pointed to has come, Jesus who is "greater than the temple." The criminal procedures in the law of Moses contained in it are gone because the theocratic state God set up for Israel does not exist, if you go to what is called Israel today, it is not what God intended as even the Jews freely admit.

    God's Law has always been known as the Ten Commandments, and no man but God Himself wrote it upon two tables of stone with the finger of God. It was placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, representing God's throne in heaven, while the law of Moses was contained in the book that he had written, and it was placed in the side of the Ark. The Ten Commandments was not inspired through any man, but divinely written by Gods on hand, so I think it was and is of great importance, even today.
     
    #6 reddogs, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    In the Tanakh, the "Law" always is a reference to the 613 Commandments of which the Decalogue is the first Ten. If one rereads Exodus, one sees the gradual giving of them that continues after Moshes comes down with the Ten, and he makes it clear that all of them are from God.

    That only applies to the application and some interpretations of the Law, not the letter of the Law itself. This was highly debated in the early Church, with the Ebionites insisting that the entire Law needed to be followed. However, they did not prevail.

    So, if one says that the "Law" is "everlasting" for Christians, then they must follow the entire Law, not just the first Ten.

    Also, you might consider looking up what Paul said about following the Law, and if you have trouble finding that, let me know and I can get some of the pertinent verses for you.

    Not true-- see above.

    Here are the 307 verses in the Torah/Tanakh that contain the word "Law", so you can see for yourself what they are referring to: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
     
  8. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Jesus the Jew observed the Sabbath. And the first Jewish followers of Resurrected Christ followed the Sabbath by going to the Temple for prayers and instruction but later met to share the Eucharist on the 'first day of the week'. That was the common practice, long before the Roman Catholic Church.
     
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  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    You mean before that name for the Church was used, right?
     
  10. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    So lets all go to the Temple to observe the sacrificial system, but wait, we cant do it. Can we say why this is, its plain as the proverbial 'nose on your face'. As Christ has come and through His sacrifice, as the Lamb of God, type has met antitype. He who is greater than the Temple and wrote the Ten Commandments in stone has come.
     
  11. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    There were churches before centralization. And we believe those churches subsist in Catholic Church, and today the Church of Antioch and the Church of Rome. Not sure I'm following you, would you elaborate?
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    What does that have to do with what we were discussing, namely the issue of Shabbat for Christians?

    What's "plain", iyo?
    What does this have to do with what' we've discussed in regards to Shabbat?

    Also, you might note that I am a Christian.

    Seems like you're trying to score some sort of "debate points" on that which we've not been discussing. Did you look up the 613 Laws by chance that I linked you to? Did you look up what Paul said about the Law by chance?
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The apostolic Church went through name changes as time went on, from "the Way", to "Christian" (at first believed to be a derogatory reference to the Church), to Catholic (and orthodox-- notice no caps on the latter) by the end if the 2nd century (both were originally descriptors of the Church). There was also the Ebionites, although they were not in the fold because of their close adherence to halacha (Jewish Law), and there were other splinter groups that, like the Ebionites, didn't survive in the long haul.

    Obviously there was less cohesiveness between local churches because of distance, such as with the Thomasite Church in India that much later reunited with the CC.

    I think we're on the same page on this, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  14. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    The Romans incorporated gods from conquered peoples throughout the empire, and the Sol Invictus was the sun god of the Roman Empire...
    The Dying-and-Rising Gods: Sol Invictus

    Here is the History Channel on the emperor Constantines edict..."The gradual process towards Christian tradition and ritual was underscored in 321, when, on the 7th of March, Constantine decreed that dies Solis, or “the day of the sun,” should be observed as a universal day of rest.".... Constantine Decrees "Sun-Day" as Day of Rest | History Channel on Foxtel

    Now what happened next is even in Wikipedia...
    The Great Apostasy is a term used by some religious groups to describe the perceived fallen state of traditional Christianity, especially the Roman Catholic Church, because they claim it allowed traditional Greco-Roman culture (i.e.Greco-Roman mysteries, deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus, pagan festivals and Mithraic sun worship and idol worship) into the church. That it is not representative of the faith founded by Jesus and promulgated through his twelve Apostles: in short, in their opinion, the church has fallen into apostasy.[1][2] They feel that to attract the pagans to nominal Christianity, the Catholic Church took measures to amalgamate the Christian and pagan festivals so pagans would join the church;[3] for example, bringing in the pagan festival of Easter as a substitute for the Pasch or Passover, although neither Jesus nor his Apostles enjoined the keeping of this or any other festival.[4][5]

    They consider the Papacy to be in full-blown apostasy for allowing pagan rituals, the worship of Mary and idols[6], and pagan beliefs and ceremonies to come into the church, having those who pointed out its apostasy persecuted and killed and never repenting of or fully admitting the true extent of its actions.[7][8][9][10]"

    The worship of the sun was widespread and we find that Baal worship is sun worship, and it also had Ashtoreth (Ishtar / Astarte) as the queen of heaven. These pagan gods had spread through Egyptian/Greek influence and spread throughout the known Roman world.

    Note what it says in Judges:
    "Judges 2:13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth."

    And in many other places, but note this which 'provoked' God to anger.:
    Jeremiah 7:18
    "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

    It is the apostasy of sun and idol worship of Baal and Ashtaroth that slowly crept into the church. The pagans fashioned Madonna and child idols and placed them in sacred shrines, you would think Christianity would know to keep from it, but instead the names and the idols have changed, and we see it in the church....The Mother-Son Sun Worship System | Paganism and Catholicism | Legend of Nimrod We also find many books written on it..https://www.amazon.com/Cathedral-Black-Madonna-Mysteries-Chartres/dp/1594770204

    The church 'christianized' the idols and allowed in sun worship so the pagans could keep their pagan gods but still get in the church, and swell the number of 'converts'.
     
    #14 reddogs, Jul 22, 2019
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  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Which is why it's call "Sunday" in English, which just so happens to just be a day of the week.

    According to the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", no object nor any person is to be worshiped.

    The Christian celebration of Easter is not "pagan" in any way, and if one goes through the Easter mass liturgy one one can clearly see that as all prayers are directed to God.

    Mary is not worshiped but is part of the "communion of saints" concept as found in the "Apostle's Creed" whereas the dead can pray for the living and the living can pray for the dead. Like in the prayers in the Rosary whereas it asks Mary to "pray for us...".

    Again, that's forbidden in Catholicism.

    Is there any limit to your anti-Catholic bigotry whereas you feel obligated to make up or parrot such hate-filled and dishonest rhetoric?

    I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church to believe in such nonsense but found out just how much I was being lied to when I took a couple of Catholic theology courses in college. About a decade later I converted to Catholicism, and one of the things I've enjoyed is that no priest that I've ever listened to in over 50 years of attending mass ever bad-mouthed any Protestant church. What a relief to get away from such hate-filled bigotry.
     
  16. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Its history, no bigotry, the day was named for the sun god..."All of the days honored Roman deities. Sunday (dies Solis) was the day of the god sun Sol. Monday (dies Lunae) was the day of the moon and celebrated the goddess Luna. Tuesday (dies Martis) was the day of Mars, the god of war. Wednesday (dies Mercurii) was the day of the god Mercury. Thursday (dies Iovis) was the day of the god Jupiter. Friday (dies Veneris) was the day of goddess Venus. Saturday (dies Saturni) was the day of god Saturn."Ancient Roman Calendar

    So what day did the early church hold as the day of worship, the Sabbath of course. The church in Rome was competing with other centers of Christianity such as Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem, so it allowed the pagan idols and rituals in to gain more converts. It soon spread and Christians began to participate with the pagan religions on the Sunday (Day of the Sun) celebrations while still continuing to observe the Sabbath. The Sunday pagan celebrations allowed much more festivities and what was more familiar, so they began to look with disfavor on the seventh day and began to worship on Sunday.

    The apostle Paul, in his second letter to the Thessalonians, foretold the great apostasy which would come into the church. He declared that before the return of Christ would, "come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who exalteth himself above all that is called God;" Even at that early date he saw, creeping into the church, errors in belief that would prepare the way for the false teachings to come in.

    Little by little, and then more openly as it increased in strength and gained control of believers, paganism and idol worship came into the church. The customs of heathenism began to find their way into the early Christian church and compromise and conformity to paganism was held back for a time by the fierce persecutions by the Roman Emperors. But as persecution ceased, and Christianity was accepted and entered the courts and palaces of the Emperors and Kings, the true church laid aside the humble simplicity of Christ for the pomp and pride of priests and pagan leaders and in place of the truth from God, it substituted human theories, rites and traditions.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Of curse it was, but that's not why the Church chose it if you actually spent a few minutes to do the homework.

    Sunday was the day of Jesus' resurrection, so it had a special meaning in the Church that lasts through today. Matter of fact it was often referred to as "the Lord's Day", with "Lord" in this case referring to Jesus.

    Also, on Sunday the Church, at least by the end of the 1st century, observed Sunday as being the day for the "agape meal" in commemoration of Jesus' and the Twelve's "Last Supper" (the "Eucharist"-- "communion"), and this shows up in the "Didache" written near the end of the 1st century.

    In the 2nd century, since the Church was not under Jewish Law that mandated Shabbat observance, the Church merged the two celebrations together since Jesus was deemed to be more important than Jewish Law ("halacha").

    Again, you repeatedly ignore the simple fact that the early Church gradually walked away from observing Jewish Law, and one sees this happening in Acts whereas Peter's vision negates the Jewish necessity of keeping kosher.

    IOW, you keep on trying to have it both ways, and that simply is not working, and Paul is the one who should have set you straight on this but whom you also just blow off.

    Ever stop and think that maybe it's a reference to those groups that failed to recognize the teachings and authority of the apostles and their appointees?

    Also, just an "inconvenient truth" that your Bible was selected by the Church you hate so much.

    Jesus said that he would guide his Church until the end of time, so the Church had to be in existence through the apostles and their followers during Jesus' time. Also, Paul repeatedly stated that the Church was "one body" and to beware of those who "cause divisions".

    The Church did what Jesus taught the Church to do, namely to "teach with authority" as he and it has done. The Church was never meant to be some sort of loosy-goosy "just do what feels good" entity based on no substance. Again, your Bible reflects this need for being "one body" and to "teach with authority".

    This is what the Church has done now for almost 2000 years, so how far back does your church go? And why does your church teach such hate-filled bigotry when Jesus taught us that we need to "love one another as I have loved you"? There are many churches that teach that we all need to accept and reflect love, not hate, so maybe seek out a different church than the one that is teaching you that hate, bigotry, and dishonesty are somehow acceptable.
     
  18. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Then why didn't anyone observe it then, no one did. You can arbitrarily claim 'I keep Sunday in honor of the Resurrection' but none of the Apostles or any of the early Christians began keeping Sunday as the day of worship after the resurrection.

    Worship is the reason for the Sabbath. It is the only day God ever gave us to worship Him on. "In vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9. That which God gives us is the truth. We are to believe it and obey it. It is not safe to refuse obedience to the obvious truths of God’s Word. "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination." Proverbs 28:9.

    So what does the Word of God tell us when men come up with changes to what God has given us, or bring in tradition which go against Gods Law. "We ought to obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29.

    So does the resurrection change the day of the Sabbath, well the problem is that God never told anyone to keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ, or for any other reason. That is why they keep changing the reason, because its not from the apostles, Christ or His word, but from 'traditions' of men. The Bible decidedly and repeatedly tells us to keep holy the seventh day of the week. On the cross on Friday morning and afternoon, our salvation hung in the balance. By sundown Friday it was all settled. The price had been paid. The salvation of those who would accept it was assured. Then came the Sabbath day of rest, and Jesus our Lord rested in the tomb.

    On Sunday morning, He rose and another work week began. Christ began working again..Those who want to abandon a clear command of God to keep the seventh day for another day, could just keep Friday or any day. But we keep a day holy because God says to, not because we decide to.
     
    #18 reddogs, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  19. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    Acts 15:22-29.
    The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
    22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

    The apostles and elders, your brothers,

    To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

    Greetings.

    24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

    Farewell.
     
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    This has been explained to you ad nauseum, which includes the reality that Christians are not under Jewish Law. Why can't you seemingly understand that? If you insist that the Sabbath must be observed, then what about the other Jewish Laws, such as keeping kosher? Your position makes 0 sense.

    Most Catholic churches have mass 7 days a week, including on Shabbat. Plus, one can and hopefully should worship at any time, whether that be individual worship or communal worship. I have a cousin, for example, who attends mass 4-5 days per week.

    Then maybe you should stop just listening to your teachers who are lying through their teeth and teaching you their hate-filled dishonesty. I experienced that as well when I grew up in a fundamentalist Protestant church that taught such dishonesty and such hate-filled bigotry against Catholics and also other religions. After doing the research, I left that church, although I didn't convert to Catholicism until almost 10 years later.

    Clearly, your church has taught you dishonesty and hatred, but there are numerous churches that don't generally do that, so maybe start checking them out. If you need help along that line, just let me know because I've studied most of their theologies and visited a great many of them with my students or on my own as part of my teaching a comparative religions course many moons ago.

    Jesus taught us to love, not to hate. Jesus taught us to be honest, not dishonest. Your church appears not to do a very good job teaching these basics.
     
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