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Is Space Exploration Essential?

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
If you (general you) believe in an impending religious apocalypse/changing of things such as a 2nd coming of Christ or the 5th sun setting or whatever "event" from whatever religion...

Do you think that space programs are a waste of our time and money?

Do you disagree that it's 100% necessary to put our eggs in more than one basket in case anything happens to mother Earth?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Regardless of anything mentioned I think space exploration is a waste of money and resources.
 

silvermoon383

Well-Known Member
Space exploration is most definitely NOT a waste of money or effort. It is one of the most essential sciences for human survival. Believe it or not, Earth will not be around forever. Be it either through human stupidity or plain old nature, Earth will eventually become uninhabitable, and if we wish to survive we need to find new planets to live on.

Then there's all the spinoffs from the space program. Practically every piece of technology you use today was touched by the space program. The weather forecast you look at every morning wouldn't be possible without satellites. Food processing, storage practices, manufacturing techniques, medicines, and materials that you use every day came from the space program. Some of the most inspirational pictures ever to be taken by humans are pictures of space, taken either by satellites, probes, telescopes, or even humans themselves. Space exploration has taught us more about the universe and our place in it than anything else in history.

If you missed by point, space exploration is essential to human survival. Physically, mentally, and spiritually.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
If you (general you) believe in an impending religious apocalypse/changing of things such as a 2nd coming of Christ or the 5th sun setting or whatever "event" from whatever religion...

Do you think that space programs are a waste of our time and money?
I personally don't understand that mentality.

If I try to put myself in the point of view of a theist, I think that in that perspective, I'd see all of the universe as the work of God. In that context, science in general and space exploration in particular could be seen as a form of communion.

There's an inscription in the ceiling of the rotunda at the Royal Ontario Museum that's stuck with me: "That all may know His work". I don't like the anti-secular undertones of it in a public institution (though I recognize that it's the product of a different time), but I think that if I ever became a theist, that's how I'd view science: as a glimpse at the mind of God by studying the product of that mind.

Do you disagree that it's 100% necessary to put our eggs in more than one basket in case anything happens to mother Earth?
Depends on what future we want for humanity.

And for the foreseeable future, space exploration will be inherently dependent on the Earth, so the day when we're not putting all our eggs in one basket is a long, long way off.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
All the more reason to get crackin'.
This expression does not work with the egg metaphor. :D

Don't get me wrong: I think that space exploration is a very worthwhile pursuit that we should be doing. But at the same time, I think that if we can't figure out how to survive on Earth, space travel probably won't save us from anything that's currently threatening us.
 

Atomist

I love you.
All the more reason to get crackin'.
I see what you did there.

I don't really get the instance on the fact that (human) life is that important that we must spread it. It really doesn't matter. I mean if all life as we know it dies (say the earth get destroyed) it wouldn't have changed anything (from the perspective of the universe). Like there is no real point to (insert some field of science) outside of curiosity and technological improvement. But, if we get to the point were we can "spread our seed" we may as well do it... but only out of said 2 reasons.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
Space exploration is most definitely NOT a waste of money or effort. It is one of the most essential sciences for human survival. Believe it or not, Earth will not be around forever. Be it either through human stupidity or plain old nature, Earth will eventually become uninhabitable, and if we wish to survive we need to find new planets to live on.
Yeah like *cough* *cough* maybe Venus *cough* or Saturn.

Then there's all the spinoffs from the space program. Practically every piece of technology you use today was touched by the space program.
"Practically every" you say. Yeah sure. Your middle name isn't "Exaggeration" by any chance is it? And FYI, I wasn't talking about the space program, but space exploration, a facet of the program.

The weather forecast you look at every morning wouldn't be possible without satellites.
So what? Weather forecasts relying on satellites are a result of placing satellites into orbit, not with space exploration. You know, e x p l o r i n g space, the science.

Space exploration has taught us more about the universe and our place in it than anything else in history.
That is very debatable. However, for sake of argument, granting you're right one has to ask, At what cost? As Michio Kaku (physicist and science commentator) said in one of his Forbes articles:
"The space station costs upward of $100 billion, yet its critics call it a 'station to nowhere.' It has no clearly defined scientific purpose."
Meanwhile government services are struggling to find enough money to keep them afloat. Money and resource use for space exploration aren't the sole cause for our sad financial condition of course, but they've certainly been a large contributor. Had the money that went into space exploration---billions upon billions of dollars---instead been spent on needed social service these services would never have been eliminated or downsized. And the trade off for all this expenditure? Not much. Certainly nothing to brag about as far as getting our bang for the buck. In fact, the return has been down right pathetic.

If you missed by point, space exploration is essential to human survival. Physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Oh I got your point, but its an extremely bad one. But go ahead and enjoy your dream that the world's future failing civilizations will be saved by packing a few humans into spaceships with Tang and Spam for their 12 year-long trip to. . . err . . .what, Neptune? As for mental and spiritual survival, :facepalm: c'mon, give me a break here.
 
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Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
Was it really necessary to emerge from the caves?
was really necessary to trade in a B&W TV on a colour TV?
Space is the universe and thats where we are headed.
Humans probably dont care but mankind does it is our destiny.

Cheers
 
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Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
If "we" as a species want to continue, then getting off this one single planet is a must. Any closed system will eventually become unstable over time, given our drive to increase our numbers.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
If you (general you) believe in an impending religious apocalypse/changing of things such as a 2nd coming of Christ or the 5th sun setting or whatever "event" from whatever religion...

Do you think that space programs are a waste of our time and money?

Do you disagree that it's 100% necessary to put our eggs in more than one basket in case anything happens to mother Earth?

Even though I think a man-made apocalypse is a very real threat (nuclear war, bio-weaponry etc) I still consider space exploration to be something of a luxury. While I find space fascinating and would love to discover new life or new resources, I think we have far too many problems here on Earth that the money spent on space exploration would be better spent solving.
From a hypothetical viewpoint, if we do discover a new planet with a stable ecosystem and possibly even sentient beings... what sort of monsters would we be to settle there when we can't even look after our own planet? Humanity is already close enough to a swarm of locusts, let's not make it an interstellar swarm of locusts.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Regardless of anything mentioned I think space exploration is a waste of money and resources.

I agree. Why did the US send astronauts to land on the moon in the 1960's? Not for oil or water or anything practical. Just to plant the flag and beat the Russians, just to win the Space Race. This is the geopolitical version of two men measuring a certain body-part to see whose is bigger.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
If "we" as a species want to continue, then getting off this one single planet is a must. Any closed system will eventually become unstable over time, given our drive to increase our numbers.

True, but don't you think we have more pressing and immediate concerns here on Earth?
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
True, but don't you think we have more pressing and immediate concerns here on Earth?
Yes and no. Many of the solutions to previous problems have come about through scientific development and innovation/advancement. New problems are also created in the process, of course, but I believe if we say that we don't have the time ro resources to focus on this now, it will become a perennial excuse and it will ultimately never be done. There will ALWAYS be more pressing and immediate problems here if that becomes our standard operating procedure.
 

Reptillian

Hamburgler Extraordinaire
My friends are not science enthusaists occasionally will say that things like space exploration or the large hadron collider are a waste money. My state is building an underground laboratory in an abandoned gold mine which some think is a big waste of financial resources. My repsonse is that its tough to tell what will be useful in the future. Todays theory is tomorrows reality. Many of the advances we've made in the last half century were due to centuries of science for the sake of science. Knowledge piles up until a key innovation comes along to make theory into reality, then technological advance and change come suprisingly quickly...its not unlike evolution. Space exploration may not benefit you personally, but your great great grandchildren might be thankful. Remember that electricity and computers were pure theory at one point. If it had cost scientists like Micheal Faraday much of their money and resources to do their research, their contemporaries might have called them fools and madmen, but we would still consider them to be visionaries.

"The labours of men of genius, however erroneously directed, scarcely fail to ultimately turn to the solid advantage of mankind." - Mary Shelley "Frankenstein"
 
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Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Yes and no. Many of the solutions to previous problems have come about through scientific development and innovation/advancement. New problems are also created in the process, of course, but I believe if we say that we don't have the time ro resources to focus on this now, it will become a perennial excuse and it will ultimately never be done. There will ALWAYS be more pressing and immediate problems here if that becomes our standard operating procedure.

Fair enough.
 

silvermoon383

Well-Known Member
Yeah like *cough* *cough* maybe Venus *cough* or Saturn.
No, planets and moons like Pandora, the forest moon of Endor, Betazed, Bajor, Mars, even Europa and Enceladus. *note* Listing fictional planets and moons is not to be taken as a belief that said planets and moons exist in reality.

"Practically every" you say. Yeah sure. Your middle name isn't "Exaggeration" by any chance is it? And FYI, I wasn't talking about the space program, but space exploration, a facet of the program.
It's not an exaggeration. You'd be surprised when you see how much came from space technology.

So what? Weather forecasts relying on satellites are a result of placing satellites into orbit, not with space exploration. You know, e x p l o r i n g space, the science.
But where did we get the tech to put satellites into orbit? From space exploration.

That is very debatable. However, for sake of argument, granting you're right one has to ask, At what cost? As Michio Kaku (physicist and science commentator) said in one of his Forbes articles:
"The space station costs upward of $100 billion, yet its critics call it a 'station to nowhere.' It has no clearly defined scientific purpose."
Meanwhile government services are struggling to find enough money to keep them afloat. Money and resource use for space exploration aren't the sole cause for our sad financial condition of course, but they've certainly been a large contributor. Had the money that went into space exploration---billions upon billions of dollars---instead been spent on needed social service these services would never have been eliminated or downsized. And the trade off for all this expenditure? Not much. Certainly nothing to brag about as far as getting our bang for the buck. In fact, the return has been down right pathetic.
Ah yes, the cost argument. Do you know just how much money has gone into space exploration? I looked it up: $843 billion from 1958-2009. This year's budget was $19b (0.5% of the national budget), bringing the total to $852b. Yes, that looks like a lot of money, but remember, that's spread out over 52 years, giving an average of $16.6b a year. Again, that sounds like a lot, but lets look at what else the government has spent money on in 2009: $782b for defense (23%), $678b for Social Security (20%), and another $676b for Medicare and Medicaid (19%). Wow, social services and the military are sooooooooo starved for cash.... Of course the space programs critics are saying it's a waste. They'll say anything to cast it into a bad light.

As for the return from space, lets see: jobs on American soil, high-tech research, faster and better aircraft, better satellite tech for science, navigation, and defense, economic increases, and more tech and process spin-offs than I can imagine.

Oh I got your point, but its an extremely bad one. But go ahead and enjoy your dream that the world's future failing civilizations will be saved by packing a few humans into spaceships with Tang and Spam for their 12 year-long trip to. . . err . . .what, Neptune? As for mental and spiritual survival, :facepalm: c'mon, give me a break here.
I'm not talking about our current civilizations, I'm talking about our species. If we want to survive in the long run we have to learn how to live in space and on other planets and moons. If we don't we'll be at the mercy of whatever it is that comes to kill the Earth.

And for the spiritual and mental survival, go to a public star party, the more visitors the better. Look at people's faces when they look into a telescope for the first time. I've seen nothing else that brings that level of awe to a person.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It's not an exaggeration. You'd be surprised when you see how much came from space technology.
Not just technology, either.

I read through a paper on the social impact of the Apollo program and was surprised to find that NASA was the first civilian body to use the phased planning approach that we use for highway design projects today.

I'm sure that there's a million small ways in which the space program has impacted our lives, and that's even before we consider the advances in "hard" technology.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
All the more reason to get crackin'.

The best way to get crackin' is to do nothing. With our current level of technology, actual colonization of anything other than Earth is prohibitively expensive,
fraught with peril, & doesn't look productive. We can't even occupy a Louisiana delta without regular catastrophe! (Moreover, it would suck money from more
interesting projects.) By analogy, if Abraham Lincoln wanted to mount space exploration program, manned or otherwise, no amount of spending would get the
job done. Similarly, we currently lack vehicular, medical, computer. launch & other technologies which would make it practical.....just being "possible" isn't
good enuf. So for the moment, I favor the tremendous scientific & technological advances we get from doing that which we already can do well, eg, robotic
missions,remote sensing. Let's get more ambitious about "plan B" when it looks practical.

Where's that damn space elevator? I want it now!
 
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