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Is Sola Scriptura Unbiblical?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You've got to remember the concept of the Trinity. When Jesus speaks all three members of the Trinity speak with him. The same is true when the Holy Spirit speaks, Jesus and the Father speak with him too.

That would mean you don't need the bible. You have all three working through you. I'm not a trinitarian. The bible is hierarchical and patronical not equalitarian focused. Outside of the trinity-argument, though, why would the bible be the sole authority and not christ?

You mean giving credit?

In other words, you guys aren't following the apostles and christ example in not taking credit for what they say and write.​

Had to read it again. Nope. Not "taking" ... in other words, the apostles and christ didn't take the credit of christ's words (former) and the father's words (latter). Everything went to the father.

Christians seem to give credit to the apostles more than they do to christ. If christ is spirit, why can't you know him without scripture?
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Revelation 22:19
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
That only applies to the Book of Revelation (key words: "book of this prophecy". The rest of the New Testament wouldn't even be compiled in the form we know it in today for another 300 years.

There are other places. I recall another with Paul telling people not to add to or take away from anything he had written.
Lemme know when you find that source.
It also makes logical sense where Peter says anyone who distorts scripture is bound for destruction, which logically means sola scriptura.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how "Don't twist the meaning of this book" logically flows into "Use only this book for the entirety of your religious ideas".
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
That would mean you don't need the bible. You have all three working through you. I'm not a trinitarian. The bible is hierarchical and patronical not equalitarian focused. Outside of the trinity-argument, though, why would the bible be the sole authority and not christ?
Simply cause the Bible speaks for Christ.
Christians seem to give credit to the apostles more than they do to christ.
That is true for some, however, I don't think that's me.
If christ is spirit, why can't you know him without scripture?
I'm not sure Christ is completely Spirit, I mean, he rose from the dead with a glorified, indestructible body. This makes me think that the Holy Spirit is the piece of God that indwells Christians, not Jesus. Don't confuse Jesus with the Holy Spirit.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
That would mean you don't need the bible. You have all three working through you. I'm not a trinitarian. The bible is hierarchical and patronical not equalitarian focused. Outside of the trinity-argument, though, why would the bible be the sole authority and not christ?

In other words, you guys aren't following the apostles and christ example in not taking credit for what they say and write.​

Had to read it again. Nope. Not "taking" ... in other words, the apostles and christ didn't take the credit of christ's words (former) and the father's words (latter). Everything went to the father.

Christians seem to give credit to the apostles more than they do to christ. If christ is spirit, why can't you know him without scripture?
It's interesting that you say this. I remember a quote from St. John Chrysostom where he states that, if Christians did a better job of listening to the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't need a Bible at all. But God condescends to our lack of trust in Him and gives us the Bible in written form.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
I'm not sure Christ is completely Spirit, I mean, he rose from the dead with a glorified, indestructible body. This makes me think that the Holy Spirit is the piece of God that indwells Christians, not Jesus. Don't confuse Jesus with the Holy Spirit.
Christ is risen in a physical body, yes, but He is also spirit. Christ promised that He would be with us, and St. Paul states that Christ lives in him. We have been reborn in the image of Christ, He is always with us, we are part of His body, the Kingdom of God is within us... Plenty points to Jesus being in our hearts as well as the Holy Spirit.
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
Christ is risen in a physical body, yes, but He is also spirit. Christ promised that He would be with us, and St. Paul states that Christ lives in him. We have been reborn in the image of Christ, He is always with us, we are part of His body, the Kingdom of God is within us... Plenty points to Jesus being in our hearts as well as the Holy Spirit.
Well then is the Father in our hearts as well?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Simply cause the Bible speaks for Christ.

This is a perfect time for this verse: John 5:39

Christ speaks of Hebrew Scriptures. The Laws written by Moses but spoken by god. If god was a human being, yeah, I can see you need the bible to know about him. Since god is a spirit, I don't see the logic in that.

I'm not sure Christ is completely Spirit, I mean, he rose from the dead with a glorified, indestructible body. This makes me think that the Holy Spirit is the piece of God that indwells Christians, not Jesus. Don't confuse Jesus with the Holy Spirit.

Well, god/creator created a human child by miracle. After being blessed into his ministry at baptism, when he died the holy spirit (I guess the spirit that is holy-adjective?) his spirit came in union with god. When the apostles spread the word out, they did so by the spirit of christ not a holy spirit hanging out somewhere. The gist of scriptures basically says you live like jesus. Die like jesus. Resurrected like jesus. Join with god like jesus.

In the name of jesus. Through Him. In him. With him.

and so forth.

I should be able to type this with my eyes closed by now of many years being on this site.
 

Magus

Active Member
It's well documented how much drugs ancient people took, they burnt psychedelic substances, breathed in the holy spirit and hallucinated , the actual meaning of 'Spirit', is a Gas, Christ
means 'Oiled', Chrism means Oil, linguistically, Christians (Oiled People) have no idea what they are saying .
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It's interesting that you say this. I remember a quote from St. John Chrysostom where he states that, if Christians did a better job of listening to the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't need a Bible at all. But God condescends to our lack of trust in Him and gives us the Bible in written form.

Shrugs. Some people learn by listening and some by reading. If I'm not physically at Mass with the body and Eucharist (I'm tactile), I don't get it like that. Need the whole shabang.

But, many god-religions are oral. So, it's not a fast rule just depends on the religion.
 
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Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
I want to point out that Martin Luther didn't take a "Bible-only" approach to theology. There are five solas from the protestant reformation. The Bible simply is the highest authority, it doesn't mean there's no room for tradition.
And heck, even the Augsburg Confessions make reference to the Creeds and Fathers of the Church.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
I believe that Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Cyril of Jerusalem
at least are well cited as believing in Sola Scriptora.

From: SOLA SCRIPTURA AND THE EARLY CHURCH - What did the Early Church believe about the authority of Scripture? • ChristianAnswers.Net

Cyril of Jerusalem held to sola Scriptura

The fact that the early Church was faithful to the principle of sola Scriptura is clearly seen from the writings of Cyril of Jerusalem (the bishop of Jerusalem in the mid 4th century). He is the author of what is known as the Catechetical Lectures. This work is an extensive series of lectures given to new believers expounding the principle doctrines of the faith. It is a complete explanation of the faith of the Church of his day. His teaching is thoroughly grounded in Scripture. There is in fact not one appeal in the entirety of the Lectures to an oral apostolic Tradition that is independent of Scripture.

He states in explicit terms that if he were to present any teaching to these catechumens which could not be validated from Scripture, they were to reject it. This fact confirms that his authority as a bishop was subject to his conformity to the written Scriptures in his teaching. The following excerpts are some of his statements on the final authority of Scripture from these lectures.

5]

"But take thou and hold that faith only as a learner and in profession, which is by the Church delivered to thee, and is established from all Scripture. For since all cannot read the Scripture, but some as being unlearned, others by business, are hindered from the knowledge of them; in order that the soul may not perish for lack of instruction, in the Articles which are few we comprehend the whole doctrine of Faith…And for the present, commit to memory the Faith, merely listening to the words; and expect at the fitting season the proof of each of its parts from the Divine Scriptures. For the Articles of the Faith were not composed at the good pleasure of men: but the most important points chosen from all Scriptures, make up the one teaching of the Faith. mustard seed in a little grain contains many branches, thus also this Faith, in a few words, hath enfolded in its bosom the whole knowledge of godliness contained both in the Old and New Testaments. Behold, therefore, brethren and hold the traditions which ye now receive, and write them on the table of your hearts". [6]

The Church Fathers are responsible for the Bible we have today.
There's an immense difference between "This can be proven from the Bible" and "This MUST be proven ONLY from the Bible".
 

Magus

Active Member
Well yes, of course. Isaiah 57:15. Whenever you have one Person of the Trinity doing something, all three are involved.

Old Testament is incompatible with Christian ideas, no idea why Christians quote anything in the OT, there is no Heaven, Hell , Triny or a Kingdom of God,

Isaiah 57:15 - whose name is 'qadowsh' ( corruption of Zeus i bet)
- Spirit = Blow / Wind / Gas

The English translations of the OT are mostly wrong.

Genesis 1:2 - The West wind blew over the faces of the water ( No God needed)
Genesis 1:2 - The Spirit of Gods moved upon the face of the waters ( grammar breaking translation)

I don't even know people read the Bible without any know how of how ancient people actually thought.
 
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RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
This is a perfect time for this verse: John 5:39
This proves that we don't need Scripture how? It says the Scriptures testify about Jesus.
Christ speaks of Hebrew Scriptures. The Laws written by Moses but spoken by god. If god was a human being, yeah, I can see you need the bible to know about him. Since god is a spirit, I don't see the logic in that.
How do you get to know a Spirit? You don't, they don't communicate with living things. (Or they're not supposed to.) God is different in that we need a revelation from him, and he doesn't use Ouija boards. Honestly.
Well, god/creator created a human child by miracle. After being blessed into his ministry at baptism, when he died the holy spirit (I guess the spirit that is holy-adjective?) his spirit came in union with god. When the apostles spread the word out, they did so by the spirit of christ not a holy spirit hanging out somewhere. The gist of scriptures basically says you live like jesus. Die like jesus. Resurrected like jesus. Join with god like jesus.
No, you're not a traditional Christian. Study the Trinity.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This proves that we don't need Scripture how? It says the Scriptures testify about Jesus.

You said "Simply because the Bible speaks for Christ." The verse I gave you says "you search scriptures as if they have eternal life.... even they testify to my behalf." The irony in the scripture is telling his audience they are looking to scripture for him when they should look to him as the authority of scripture.

Aka you got it backwards.

How do you get to know a Spirit? You don't, they don't communicate with living things. (Or they're not supposed to.) God is different in that we need a revelation from him, and he doesn't use Ouija boards. Honestly.

Everyone learns from god differently. You need something written. I do not. I love books a lot. Reading a good novel right now. I'd never say any book can even say one word of god's dictated words that can't be changed like written words can.

No, you're not a traditional Christian. Study the Trinity.

No. I was a christian (I used to follow christ) through the sacraments of christ. I don't speak in thees and thous, not sola scriptura, don't idolize the bible, and don't see the human christ as a spirit/creator. Can't see him as the son of himself. The sacraments teaches you the relationship between christ and god. Spirit is the energy or however named working through you. God is the creator. Christ is the savior. It's very simple.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
If any sort of theological position is to be proven using the Bible, then it must follow that the Bible has to teach that only the Bible is the source of theological truth. What would you say if someone said that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical?
Acts 17:10 But the brethren immediately sent away, in the night, Paul and Silas to Berea; who, being arrived, went away into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 And these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, receiving the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so. 12 Therefore many from among them believed, and of Grecian women of the upper classes and men not a few.​
Personal verification of what is taught is a must, and is praised by God and the apostles.

Jesus told us to really know the scriptures:
Matthew 22:29 And Jesus answering said to them, Ye err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God.​
Also,
Hosea 4: 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; for thou hast rejected knowledge, and I will reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me; seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.
John 17: 3 And this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
The errors various church dogma contain is abhorrent, be it Christendom in general, or the WT, LDS churches. People need to be responsible for what they believe, personal study. That does not mean that people don't learn from others; isn't that what is going on here!

Jesus gave us a stern warning. Believers should take note of it and not just with big admiring eyes believe all that their church is teaching them:
Matthew 15: 8. . .ye have made void the commandment of God on account of your traditional teaching. 7 Hypocrites! well has Esaias prophesied about you, saying, 8 This people honour me with the lips, but their heart is far away from me; 9 but in vain do they worship me, teaching as teachings commandments of men.

 
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RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
You said "Simply because the Bible speaks for Christ." The verse I gave you says "you search scriptures as if they have eternal life.... even they testify to my behalf." The irony in the scripture is telling his audience they are looking to scripture for him when they should look to him as the authority of scripture.

Aka you got it backwards.
Well, you have to read the Bible to know what God expects from you. God speaks through it. Otherwise everything's mysterious.
Everyone learns from god differently. You need something written. I do not. I love books a lot. Reading a good novel right now. I'd never say any book can even say one word of god's dictated words that can't be changed like written words can.
Well it's not that it can't be changed, it's that it shouldn't be changed.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Well, you have to read the Bible to know what God expects from you. God speaks through it. Otherwise everything's mysterious.

I read the full bible once. I read up to Joshua and the full NT twice. A lot of verses I quote are ones that stick with me along my christian journey. Just internet is a more convenient way to find them than trying to find the one highlighted or underlined in my bible somewhere.

To go off the bible, christ-the body-showed me what the bible taught not the other way around. I didn't "read scriptures as if it obtains eternal life." The sacraments of christ connects you with christ himself through his supper and the people. Scripture is a foundation but not a replacement of the father and the people (two highest commandments).

It takes a long time to get to know god apart from the bible. That's why many god-religions are life long communal faiths that help individual people grow without thinking they will grow white hair overnight. It's a lot of prayer, communication, devotion, service to the people, worshiping with people of like minds, etc. Reading the bible gives you the foundation but at some point you'd have to set aside the training wheels and ride the bike itself.

Well it's not that it can't be changed, it's that it shouldn't be changed.

I guess in other words, if I think like other god-believers that don't believe in books to know someone personally, I'd say that oral instruction from god comes first. Anything written or said by a person is second. Christians, according to scripture, are supposed to talk to god/father "in the name of" christ. Basically, you're writing a letter with jesus' signature at the bottom. You wrote the letter but god won't take it without his son's signature.

It's about christ and god. The bible is secondary.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Acts 17:10 But the brethren immediately sent away, in the night, Paul and Silas to Berea; who, being arrived, went away into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 And these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, receiving the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so. 12 Therefore many from among them believed, and of Grecian women of the upper classes and men not a few.​
Personal verification of what is taught is a must, and is praised by God and the apostles.

Jesus told us to really know the scriptures:
Matthew 22:29 And Jesus answering said to them, Ye err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God.​
Also,
Hosea 4: 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; for thou hast rejected knowledge, and I will reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me; seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.
John 17: 3 And this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
The errors the churches dogma contain is abhorrent, be it Christendom in general, or the WT, LDS churches. People need to be responsible for what they believe, personal study. That does not mean that people don't learn from others; isn't that what is going on here!

Jesus gave us a stern warning. Believers should take note of it and not just with big admiring eyes believe all that their church is teaching them:
Matthew 15: 8. . .ye have made void the commandment of God on account of your traditional teaching. 7 Hypocrites! well has Esaias prophesied about you, saying, 8 This people honour me with the lips, but their heart is far away from me; 9 but in vain do they worship me, teaching as teachings commandments of men.

How do you square Sola Scriptura with 2 Thessalonians 2:15? We're told to hold fast to the traditions which were taught to us, whether by word (i.e. spoken, oral, not-written) or by epistle (what was actually written down and became the New Testament). So even the Bible tells us to use more than the Bible for doctrine and teaching.
 
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