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Featured Is Sola Scriptura Unbiblical?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by watrewks, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    That would mean you don't need the bible. You have all three working through you. I'm not a trinitarian. The bible is hierarchical and patronical not equalitarian focused. Outside of the trinity-argument, though, why would the bible be the sole authority and not christ?

    In other words, you guys aren't following the apostles and christ example in not taking credit for what they say and write.​

    Had to read it again. Nope. Not "taking" ... in other words, the apostles and christ didn't take the credit of christ's words (former) and the father's words (latter). Everything went to the father.

    Christians seem to give credit to the apostles more than they do to christ. If christ is spirit, why can't you know him without scripture?
     
  2. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    That only applies to the Book of Revelation (key words: "book of this prophecy". The rest of the New Testament wouldn't even be compiled in the form we know it in today for another 300 years.

    Lemme know when you find that source.
    Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how "Don't twist the meaning of this book" logically flows into "Use only this book for the entirety of your religious ideas".
     
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  3. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Love everyone, meditate often

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    Simply cause the Bible speaks for Christ.
    That is true for some, however, I don't think that's me.
    I'm not sure Christ is completely Spirit, I mean, he rose from the dead with a glorified, indestructible body. This makes me think that the Holy Spirit is the piece of God that indwells Christians, not Jesus. Don't confuse Jesus with the Holy Spirit.
     
  4. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    It's interesting that you say this. I remember a quote from St. John Chrysostom where he states that, if Christians did a better job of listening to the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't need a Bible at all. But God condescends to our lack of trust in Him and gives us the Bible in written form.
     
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  5. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    Christ is risen in a physical body, yes, but He is also spirit. Christ promised that He would be with us, and St. Paul states that Christ lives in him. We have been reborn in the image of Christ, He is always with us, we are part of His body, the Kingdom of God is within us... Plenty points to Jesus being in our hearts as well as the Holy Spirit.
     
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  6. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Love everyone, meditate often

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    Well then is the Father in our hearts as well?
     
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    This is a perfect time for this verse: John 5:39

    Christ speaks of Hebrew Scriptures. The Laws written by Moses but spoken by god. If god was a human being, yeah, I can see you need the bible to know about him. Since god is a spirit, I don't see the logic in that.

    Well, god/creator created a human child by miracle. After being blessed into his ministry at baptism, when he died the holy spirit (I guess the spirit that is holy-adjective?) his spirit came in union with god. When the apostles spread the word out, they did so by the spirit of christ not a holy spirit hanging out somewhere. The gist of scriptures basically says you live like jesus. Die like jesus. Resurrected like jesus. Join with god like jesus.

    In the name of jesus. Through Him. In him. With him.

    and so forth.

    I should be able to type this with my eyes closed by now of many years being on this site.
     
  8. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    It's well documented how much drugs ancient people took, they burnt psychedelic substances, breathed in the holy spirit and hallucinated , the actual meaning of 'Spirit', is a Gas, Christ
    means 'Oiled', Chrism means Oil, linguistically, Christians (Oiled People) have no idea what they are saying .
     
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Shrugs. Some people learn by listening and some by reading. If I'm not physically at Mass with the body and Eucharist (I'm tactile), I don't get it like that. Need the whole shabang.

    But, many god-religions are oral. So, it's not a fast rule just depends on the religion.
     
    #49 Unveiled Artist, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  10. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    Well yes, of course. Isaiah 57:15. Whenever you have one Person of the Trinity doing something, all three are involved.
     
  11. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    And heck, even the Augsburg Confessions make reference to the Creeds and Fathers of the Church.
     
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  12. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    There's an immense difference between "This can be proven from the Bible" and "This MUST be proven ONLY from the Bible".
     
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  13. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Old Testament is incompatible with Christian ideas, no idea why Christians quote anything in the OT, there is no Heaven, Hell , Triny or a Kingdom of God,

    Isaiah 57:15 - whose name is 'qadowsh' ( corruption of Zeus i bet)
    - Spirit = Blow / Wind / Gas

    The English translations of the OT are mostly wrong.

    Genesis 1:2 - The West wind blew over the faces of the water ( No God needed)
    Genesis 1:2 - The Spirit of Gods moved upon the face of the waters ( grammar breaking translation)

    I don't even know people read the Bible without any know how of how ancient people actually thought.
     
    #53 Magus, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  14. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Love everyone, meditate often

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    This proves that we don't need Scripture how? It says the Scriptures testify about Jesus.
    How do you get to know a Spirit? You don't, they don't communicate with living things. (Or they're not supposed to.) God is different in that we need a revelation from him, and he doesn't use Ouija boards. Honestly.
    No, you're not a traditional Christian. Study the Trinity.
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    You said "Simply because the Bible speaks for Christ." The verse I gave you says "you search scriptures as if they have eternal life.... even they testify to my behalf." The irony in the scripture is telling his audience they are looking to scripture for him when they should look to him as the authority of scripture.

    Aka you got it backwards.

    Everyone learns from god differently. You need something written. I do not. I love books a lot. Reading a good novel right now. I'd never say any book can even say one word of god's dictated words that can't be changed like written words can.

    No. I was a christian (I used to follow christ) through the sacraments of christ. I don't speak in thees and thous, not sola scriptura, don't idolize the bible, and don't see the human christ as a spirit/creator. Can't see him as the son of himself. The sacraments teaches you the relationship between christ and god. Spirit is the energy or however named working through you. God is the creator. Christ is the savior. It's very simple.
     
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  16. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Acts 17:10 But the brethren immediately sent away, in the night, Paul and Silas to Berea; who, being arrived, went away into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 And these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, receiving the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so. 12 Therefore many from among them believed, and of Grecian women of the upper classes and men not a few.​
    Personal verification of what is taught is a must, and is praised by God and the apostles.

    Jesus told us to really know the scriptures:
    Matthew 22:29 And Jesus answering said to them, Ye err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God.​
    Also,
    Hosea 4: 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; for thou hast rejected knowledge, and I will reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me; seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.
    John 17: 3 And this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
    The errors various church dogma contain is abhorrent, be it Christendom in general, or the WT, LDS churches. People need to be responsible for what they believe, personal study. That does not mean that people don't learn from others; isn't that what is going on here!

    Jesus gave us a stern warning. Believers should take note of it and not just with big admiring eyes believe all that their church is teaching them:
    Matthew 15: 8. . .ye have made void the commandment of God on account of your traditional teaching. 7 Hypocrites! well has Esaias prophesied about you, saying, 8 This people honour me with the lips, but their heart is far away from me; 9 but in vain do they worship me, teaching as teachings commandments of men.

     
    #56 Grandliseur, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  17. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Love everyone, meditate often

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    Well, you have to read the Bible to know what God expects from you. God speaks through it. Otherwise everything's mysterious.
    Well it's not that it can't be changed, it's that it shouldn't be changed.
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I read the full bible once. I read up to Joshua and the full NT twice. A lot of verses I quote are ones that stick with me along my christian journey. Just internet is a more convenient way to find them than trying to find the one highlighted or underlined in my bible somewhere.

    To go off the bible, christ-the body-showed me what the bible taught not the other way around. I didn't "read scriptures as if it obtains eternal life." The sacraments of christ connects you with christ himself through his supper and the people. Scripture is a foundation but not a replacement of the father and the people (two highest commandments).

    It takes a long time to get to know god apart from the bible. That's why many god-religions are life long communal faiths that help individual people grow without thinking they will grow white hair overnight. It's a lot of prayer, communication, devotion, service to the people, worshiping with people of like minds, etc. Reading the bible gives you the foundation but at some point you'd have to set aside the training wheels and ride the bike itself.

    I guess in other words, if I think like other god-believers that don't believe in books to know someone personally, I'd say that oral instruction from god comes first. Anything written or said by a person is second. Christians, according to scripture, are supposed to talk to god/father "in the name of" christ. Basically, you're writing a letter with jesus' signature at the bottom. You wrote the letter but god won't take it without his son's signature.

    It's about christ and god. The bible is secondary.
     
  19. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    How do you square Sola Scriptura with 2 Thessalonians 2:15? We're told to hold fast to the traditions which were taught to us, whether by word (i.e. spoken, oral, not-written) or by epistle (what was actually written down and became the New Testament). So even the Bible tells us to use more than the Bible for doctrine and teaching.
     
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  20. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Sola scriptura is unbiblical, therefore it destroys itself. The Church Father's submitted to the Church Authority, therefore were not solascriptura
     
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