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Featured Is Sola Scriptura Unbiblical?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by watrewks, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. watrewks

    watrewks New Member

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    If any sort of theological position is to be proven using the Bible, then it must follow that the Bible has to teach that only the Bible is the source of theological truth. What would you say if someone said that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical?
     
  2. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Revelation 22:19
    And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

    There are other places. I recall another with Paul telling people not to add to or take away from anything he had written. It also makes logical sense where Peter says anyone who distorts scripture is bound for destruction, which logically means sola scriptura.
     
  3. watrewks

    watrewks New Member

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    Then the question inevitably leads to how do you know the Bible is the inspired word of God? The Bible doesn't come with an infallible table of contents. So wouldn't that mean you would need something outside the Bible to determine what is considered the word of God?
     
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  4. idav

    idav Being
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    Good question. First step is considering the Bible as a collection of books each with their own fallibility. If they want to only us the books the bishops chose almost four hundred years after Christ was gone, then they should probably be sure they stick to their Catholic roots.
    How were the books of the Bible chosen?
     
  5. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Lectio Divina

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    I want to point out that Martin Luther didn't take a "Bible-only" approach to theology. There are five solas from the protestant reformation. The Bible simply is the highest authority, it doesn't mean there's no room for tradition.
     
  6. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Yes, solascriptura is not found in Scripture. It was not the practice of any Christians until the 16th century
     
  7. watrewks

    watrewks New Member

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    Okay but doesn't it follow that in order to have the Bible there needs to be an authority outside the BIble to determine what is considered the word of God? 1 Timothy 3:15 says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the Bible.
     
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  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Yes as cited in various places 'Sola Scriptora' is claimed in scripture, and authoritative authorship from Moses writing most of the Pentateuch to the gospels written by the apostles, the Divinely inspired letter and the Book of Revelation.

    The Church Fathers reaffirmed this, and most of them believed in some sort of literal Genesis.

    That is the problem Christianity faces juggling the books to try and make things fit today.
     
  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    "(NIV 2 Timothy 4:3) For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." It is a prediction of a situation like ours, and with so many people saying so many different things who can reasonably deny it. Notice that what this author says is not "People will not read the Bible" but "People will not put up with sound doctrine," however even the term 'Doctrine' is quite confused these days.

    The only hint in the passage above is that doctrine is something people do not wish to hear, so it must consist of commitment, patience, forgiveness etc. It is not 'Bible reading' nor is it a set of creeds or sermons. You can call any teaching 'Doctrine'. People love creeds and sermons and love Bible reading. They love reading Proverbs and the Beatitudes. There are certain good things that they hate, and that must be what is meant by 'Doctrine' I think.
     
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  10. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Lectio Divina

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    "a pillar and buttress of the truth."
     
  11. watrewks

    watrewks New Member

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    Where is sola scriptura in the Bible?
     
  12. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Lectio Divina

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    So you got that from the Bible? :D
     
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  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I believe that Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Cyril of Jerusalem
    at least are well cited as believing in Sola Scriptora.

    From: SOLA SCRIPTURA AND THE EARLY CHURCH - What did the Early Church believe about the authority of Scripture? • ChristianAnswers.Net

    Cyril of Jerusalem held to sola Scriptura

    The fact that the early Church was faithful to the principle of sola Scriptura is clearly seen from the writings of Cyril of Jerusalem (the bishop of Jerusalem in the mid 4th century). He is the author of what is known as the Catechetical Lectures. This work is an extensive series of lectures given to new believers expounding the principle doctrines of the faith. It is a complete explanation of the faith of the Church of his day. His teaching is thoroughly grounded in Scripture. There is in fact not one appeal in the entirety of the Lectures to an oral apostolic Tradition that is independent of Scripture.

    He states in explicit terms that if he were to present any teaching to these catechumens which could not be validated from Scripture, they were to reject it. This fact confirms that his authority as a bishop was subject to his conformity to the written Scriptures in his teaching. The following excerpts are some of his statements on the final authority of Scripture from these lectures.

    5]

    "But take thou and hold that faith only as a learner and in profession, which is by the Church delivered to thee, and is established from all Scripture. For since all cannot read the Scripture, but some as being unlearned, others by business, are hindered from the knowledge of them; in order that the soul may not perish for lack of instruction, in the Articles which are few we comprehend the whole doctrine of Faith…And for the present, commit to memory the Faith, merely listening to the words; and expect at the fitting season the proof of each of its parts from the Divine Scriptures. For the Articles of the Faith were not composed at the good pleasure of men: but the most important points chosen from all Scriptures, make up the one teaching of the Faith. mustard seed in a little grain contains many branches, thus also this Faith, in a few words, hath enfolded in its bosom the whole knowledge of godliness contained both in the Old and New Testaments. Behold, therefore, brethren and hold the traditions which ye now receive, and write them on the table of your hearts". [6]

    The Church Fathers are responsible for the Bible we have today.
     
  14. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    John was referring to his book of Revelation, not the whole Bible, the books that got included in the Bible hadn't even been selected when he wrote that. Making your argument a rather ridiculous one!!

    As to what Paul says, he has no credibility with me, and his books should not have been included in the Bible IMHO.
     
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  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I cited first where the church fathers believed in 'Sola Scriptora,' and they are responsible for the Bible we have today. More to follow on both the 'Church Fathers' and the scripture.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Well, it is. There's a verse that says there would be more words than would be in scriptures. That, and god's Word is dictated-it's oral and passed on. He didn't mean literal words. We write things down for preservation. Most cultures pass down wisdom through oral tradition. Christianity isn't an exclusion.
     
  17. watrewks

    watrewks New Member

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    In the Greek there is no definite or indefinite article in this verse. People usually add a definite article in the other clauses and switch to an indefinite when it comes to the last clause that mentions the Church as a pillar and foundation of truth. There is no reason to be that inconsistent unless you're asserting a theological point.

    I quoted the Bible to show that it points to something outside of itself. The Bible alone doesn't provide a way to determine what books belong in it, it points to authority outside of it
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    If one changes words in a book, does it change the prophecy itself?

    Does it change the authority and nature of god and his dictated Words to add words to the physical bible?
     
  19. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Lectio Divina

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    Hmmm... What do you think about John chapter 14 verse 26 when Jesus says that the Holy Spirit would bring to the Apostle's remembrance all that he had said to them?
     
  20. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yes I understood that John was referring to his book. I did not stop there but made other examples from other parts of the book. If we had more scripture to go by that would also be Sola Scriptura, But the bible is our only source of scripture today.

    Peter says those who twist Pauls words, which he describes as scripture, are bound for destruction. How much importance does Peter put on scripture?

    Sola Scriptura It is also consistent with Old Testament, which is scripture from the same God...same Lord.
     
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