Is Secularism and secular form of government, one and the same?

[paarsurrey]

Is Secularism and secular form of government, one and the same, please?

Regards

 

[danieldemol]

According to my understanding secularism is a label for belief in the value of secular government, so no they are not the same

 

[Mox]

''One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.'' Wiki

In a secular state, the government cannot impose religious practices including religious law like Sharia or even a religion itself, on the people.

So a government that seeks a religious mandate for the state and it's people, is not compatible with secularism.

Secularism is the total separation of church and state, essential for freedom democracy and equality, the basic tenet of all free nations.

 

[Cacotopia]

According to my understanding secularism is a label for belief in the value of secular government, so no they are not the same

''One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.'' Wiki

In a secular state, the government cannot impose religious practices including religious law like Sharia or even a religion itself, on the people.

So a government that seeks a religious mandate for the state and it's people, is not compatible with secularism.

Secularism is the total separation of church and state, essential for freedom democracy and equality, the basic tenet of all free nations.

stop feeding it.

 

[Mox]

It's my nurturing nature...

 

[Cacotopia]

It's my nurturing nature...

well stop it, it has to learn on it's own.

 

[Mox]

well stop it, it has to learn on it's own.

Muh babies...

 

[KT Shamim]

Is Secularism and secular form of government, one and the same, please?

Regards

Don't know about secularism.
But I understand secular government is a fair and just government that's all.

 

[KT Shamim]

''One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.'' Wiki

In a secular state, the government cannot impose religious practices including religious law like Sharia or even a religion itself, on the people.

So a government that seeks a religious mandate for the state and it's people, is not compatible with secularism.

Secularism is the total separation of church and state, essential for freedom democracy and equality, the basic tenet of all free nations.

The words "right to be free from" also infer that people can willingly forgo that right.

i.e. "right to be free from" also includes the "right to adopt" religious injunctions. For example, if the overwhelming majority decide to adopt (only for themselves) legal injunctions as instructed by a religion then that does not contradict secularism.

 

[Mox]

The words "right to be free from" also infer that people can willingly forgo that right.

That would be entirely unwise. To vote in a theocratic government and end secularism. Theocratic nations along with absolute monarchies, fascist and communist nations, have very poor human rights track records.

It matters not as far as definition goes if people approve of certain religious practices or press their governments by popular mandate to make laws that enshrine in legislation, religious laws. That indeed does not mean the nation isnt secular. So long as the government is and remains neutral. Does not impose religious values/laws, on it's people.

 

[KT Shamim]

That would be entirely unwise. To vote in a theocratic government and end secularism. Theocratic nations along with absolute monarchies, fascist and communist nations, have very poor human rights track records.

It matters not as far as definition goes if people approve of certain religious practices or press their governments by popular mandate to make laws that enshrine in legislation, religious laws. That indeed does not mean the nation isnt secular. So long as the government is and remains neutral. Does not impose religious values/laws, on it's people.

I don't know about the former. But I agree with the latter part of your answer. But I would add that, in Islam, those laws that Muslims choose to adopt must not be forced upon non-Muslims as well. Because that, then, goes against secularism.

For example Muslim majority were required to pay a tax called Zakat which was more than the tax levied to non-Muslim minority called Jizya. A true Islamic government is 1. agreed upon voluntarily; 2. not imposed on non-Muslims unless they too agree upon it voluntarily; 3. lays greater burden on the majority.

This is the key reason why there is not contradiction between secularism form of government and a true Islamic government. A true Islamic government is like a voluntary charitable organization running in a secular government. Charity is over and above secularism and certainly does not contradict it.

 

[Mox]

I guess it all depends on what you mean exactly by 'Islamic Government'. KT.

 

[KT Shamim]

I guess it all depends on what you mean exactly by 'Islamic Government'. KT.

Islamic government: one in which Islamic instructions related to legislation are adopted voluntarily without any coercion by a Muslim majority; And where legislation pertaining to non-Muslims are agreed upon and kept less strict than the laws for Muslims.

Every community must, however, be covered by some treaty that is at the least secular in nature ... at the least.

This, in my opinion, is precisely how the Islamic government in Medina was governed by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw).

 

[paarsurrey]

Islamic government: one in which Islamic instructions related to legislation are adopted voluntarily without any coercion by a Muslim majority; And where legislation pertaining to non-Muslims are agreed upon and kept less strict than the laws for Muslims.

Every community must, however, be covered by some treaty that is at the least secular in nature ... at the least.

This, in my opinion, is precisely how the Islamic government in Medina was governed by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw).

Does the word "secular*" mean worldly, please?

Regards

_____________

*secular (adj.)

c. 1300, "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order," also "belonging to the state," from Old French seculer (Modern French séculier), from Late Latin saecularis "worldly, secular, pertaining to a generation or age," from Latin saecularis "of an age, occurring once in an age," from saeculum "age, span of time, lifetime, generation, breed."

This is from Proto-Italic *sai-tlo-, which, according to Watkins, is PIE instrumental element *-tlo- + *sai- "to bind, tie" (see sinew), extended metaphorically to successive human generations as links in the chain of life. De Vaan lists as a cognate Welsh hoedl "lifespan, age." An older theory connected it to words for "seed," from PIE root *se- "to sow" (see sow (v.), and compare Gothic mana-seþs "mankind, world," literally "seed of men").

Used in ecclesiastical writing like Greek aion "of this world" (see cosmos). It is source of French siècle. Ancient Roman ludi saeculares was a three-day, day-and-night celebration coming once in an "age" (120 years). In English, in reference to humanism and the exclusion of belief in God from matters of ethics and morality, from 1850s.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/secular

 

[KT Shamim]

Does the word "secular*" mean worldly, please?

Regards

_____________

*secular (adj.)

c. 1300, "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order," also "belonging to the state," from Old French seculer (Modern French séculier), from Late Latin saecularis "worldly, secular, pertaining to a generation or age," from Latin saecularis "of an age, occurring once in an age," from saeculum "age, span of time, lifetime, generation, breed."

This is from Proto-Italic *sai-tlo-, which, according to Watkins, is PIE instrumental element *-tlo- + *sai- "to bind, tie" (see sinew), extended metaphorically to successive human generations as links in the chain of life. De Vaan lists as a cognate Welsh hoedl "lifespan, age." An older theory connected it to words for "seed," from PIE root *se- "to sow" (see sow (v.), and compare Gothic mana-seþs "mankind, world," literally "seed of men").

Used in ecclesiastical writing like Greek aion "of this world" (see cosmos). It is source of French siècle. Ancient Roman ludi saeculares was a three-day, day-and-night celebration coming once in an "age" (120 years). In English, in reference to humanism and the exclusion of belief in God from matters of ethics and morality, from 1850s.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/secular

Secular means just or fair in my opinion. This should be the bare minimum standard for any government as well as an Islamic government.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Is Secularism and secular form of government, one and the same, please?

Regards

...no.

Next?

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Is Secularism and secular form of government, one and the same, please?

Regards

...no.
Next?

How would one define them, please?

Regards

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Is Secularism and secular form of government, one and the same, please?

Regards


How would one define them, please?

Regards

I'm really not sure where your confusion lies, could you be more specific?

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm really not sure where your confusion lies, could you be more specific?

It is the clarity of my thinking, instead.

Secularism is being adhered to like a worldview but secular form of government is a political system to run a democratic state while Secularism is being projected as an alternative of Atheism or the like, I believe it to be.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know about the former. But I agree with the latter part of your answer. But I would add that, in Islam, those laws that Muslims choose to adopt must not be forced upon non-Muslims as well. Because that, then, goes against secularism.

Are you claiming that secularism is demanded by Islaam?