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Featured Is Science Necessary...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    [​IMG]

    to Religion?

    Does Religion have to justify itself to science?
     
  2. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    No, theology/mythology/fiction does not have to justify itself at all.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Necessary? No.

    There is no a priori reason that religions have to hold on to proven false beliefs. The Dalai Lama for example famously declared that if there was a case where science contradicted a bit of Buddhist doctrine, he'd discard that doctrine.
     
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  4. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Northern scum

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    He's a bloody heretic.
     
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  5. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    No, the Dalai Lama was just paying lip service.
    He would never drop a doctrine because he knows which side his bread is buttered on.
     
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  6. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Northern scum

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    You're probably right, eg the lineage thing.
     
  7. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    So anything he or someone else says about doctrine is automatically a lie in your view. What a religious doctrine class belief you have.
     
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  8. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Obviously not, since religions were around long before the scientific method.
     
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  9. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Northern scum

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    ...but this I find unkind. He seems to me to be a genuine and compassionate person.
     
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  10. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    I doubt that religion can justify itself to science any more than, say, music or football can. It's not at all clear what such justification would mean. Since religion is not science, it cannot be properly expressed in scientific terms.

    While science is not necessary to religion, I do think that religion ought to take careful note of science. This is for two reasons. Most obviously, religion needs to avoid contradicting, or seeming to contradict, science. The history of such contradictions is that science prevails and religion has to adapt. The other reason is that the discoveries of science can be celebrated by religion. I am rehearsing Haydn's Creation (Die Schöpfung) at the moment. This was written during the Enlightenment, at a time when people saw the workings of nature, newly uncovered by science, as wonderful evidence of the creative power of God. This comes through strongly in the music.

    It is not by coincidence or mere whim that the papacy runs an astronomical observatory.;)
     
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  11. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Just following the money.
     
  12. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    In what way justify? Science is just a tool kit for gaining knowledge after all.
     
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  13. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    I see a number of religious folks wanting to use science to justify their belief. Just wondering why.
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Just dont try to push it into public polivy
     
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  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    If there is not harmony between science and religion then religion concerning the physical nature of our existence is mythology and ancient fiction not relevant to the physical nature of our existence and science,
     
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  16. Ella S.

    Ella S. Ex-Gnostic

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    I am a big fan of the concept of Non-Overlapping Magisteria.

    Science tells us what "is." It can tell us whether our beliefs about what exists and how things work are likely to be true or not. These are all things that have to be reasoned.

    Religion tells us what we "ought" to do. It tells us what ceremonies to perform, what's right and what's wrong, what clothes to wear, etc. These are all things that have to be taken on faith.

    When science tries to meddle in "oughts," it becomes pseudoscience. When religion tries to tell us what "is," it becomes superstition.
     
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  17. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    How can religion tell us what we ought to do when what we aught do is a function of Our Goals and What Is?
     
  18. Ella S.

    Ella S. Ex-Gnostic

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    Where do you get your goals from?
     
  19. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    My biology, my psychology (which is a function of my biology) and my environment.
     
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  20. Ella S.

    Ella S. Ex-Gnostic

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    How do you know that you "ought" to pursue the goals given to you by your biology? That sounds like a faith-based statement to me.
     
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